If you can come up with a workable solution I am all ears. You might have to move on from Marxism though as it never seems to get implemented right and tends to end up with another system where millions die. So I am going to need a lot of convincing before believing that "this time we will get it right".
'Rich Privilege'
- Thread starter SiD the Turtle
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If you can come up with a workable solution I am all ears. You might have to move on from Marxism though as it never seems to get implemented right and tends to end up with another system where millions die. So I am going to need a lot of convincing before believing that "this time we will get it right".
There is nothing you can do about being born to crappy parents in a crappy neighbourhood, and that will probably be a feature of life for many, many generations yet. The fact is that people struggle through adversity to achieve their dreams, and there has never been a time in history when people were more able to do that, or were better provided for and protected, regardless of the social problems that either still exist, or have sprung up in bad neighbourhoods in other areas a result of drugs etc. We only have to go back 100 years to see the awful conditions that the poor and elderly live in.
Today, a crapload of money is put into trying to get kids into education and into work as tax-payers, the problem is that the systems are just not always that good or effective, and there is a lot of push back from the kids themselves who have made the choice (not helped by said crummy parents) that they don't give a damn about education.
You can only do so much, and at some point we have to give people some responsibility for the way they live their life rather than blaming everything on the government, despite the fact they do deserve some blame for various things.
The fact is that there will always be some kind of gulf between the capabilities and intelligence of people, and there will always be those with an edge or drive to succeed and rise above their fellow men. This dream of an equal society will likely never exist because people will never see themselves as fully equal, and there will always be good people and bad people who would unbalance such a system of equality were it to be implemented.
The world would be a better place if people stopped looking enviously at the people above them, swallowed the bitterness at their own lack of success, and started to made the long-term plans to work their ass off and get their kids and future generations there instead.
Why do these discussions always seem to assume that people that moan about the system are poor and moan because they have failed? There are also successful people that see the unfairness in the system and would like a better balance for society. I like to think I am one of them.
I don't want to take money from the wealthy and give it directly to the poor, but I would like the money to improve opportunity. Yes some poor people make very poor decisions, there is no doubt about that, I have met more than my fair share of them as I came from that background but should a poor decision early in life mark you for life? Does someone that made a poor descision in life but wants to change it, not deserve another chance? Sure, there are those that are just **** ups in life and will never better their lot but many aren't.
I don't want to take money from the wealthy and give it directly to the poor, but I would like the money to improve opportunity. Yes some poor people make very poor decisions, there is no doubt about that, I have met more than my fair share of them as I came from that background but should a poor decision early in life mark you for life? Does someone that made a poor descision in life but wants to change it, not deserve another chance? Sure, there are those that are just **** ups in life and will never better their lot but many aren't.
Don't forget the privilege you have of being able to live with your parents, so you're actually probably receiving about £15k in benefit
No, why should it "mark you for life"?
If anyone wants to improve their situation and has the drive to do it then good to them, and that is the sentiment most people have been expressing.
It's the bitter people who just complain about those in better position, without doing anything to improve their own situations, that are the problem.
I knew this point would come out quickly and I agree totally, said it many many times. I have no issue with this as it's the nature of life. However I believe the most significant element of this is the individual and have no time for people who seek to divert this point. No question some people have bad luck, no question some people have it easier, but so what? You can impact you more than anyone, it's up to you if you want to keep trying or keeping moaning about why you keep being unsuccessful when people around you aren't. That'd the point
Edited to add I do not agree with the point of exploitation, just the second point. If by exploit you mean give a wage and use them to do stuff then yes, but I think you need to better understand exploitation.
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No, why should it "mark you for life"?
There are people that live subsistence lifestyles, that don't have the opportunity to better their situation as they have dependants. Teenage parents, or full time carers for instance. A carer can give up a large chunk of their lives caring for a member of family, they would have sacrificed a lot of their chance for their development. Even though that carer can get a degree later in life, dependant on age, it may be too late for them to kick start their career.
You should see my Harvard referencing and citation - I'm bang up on it now
Well its all about Vancouver referencing. Thats where its at.
You did but in that you also demonstrated something. You said it's human nature for people to be embarrassed by failure and that right there is another point demonstrated. I'm not embarrassed by it, I've failed at many things many times and Ive never dwelt on it or worried about it or been concerned about being judged by it. You just get back on the horse and try to ride it a bit better, probably falling off a few more times or you put it in the stable and says horses aren't my thing.well duh....
Its not really as ultra clear cut as that is it but yes. If you succeed at digging a hole you tell people how amazing you are at digging it. Showing it off to your Boyfriend etc.
If you don't you blame the tools, the fact the ground was too hard, the weather etc etc.
Its human nature to be proud of your success and ashamed of failure. I think its more about how you learn and adapt from failure. If you give up or try again. a lot of people give up early.
I think i just rewrote what you did ... lol its early
Again my point ably demonstrated. So what, they fell lucky or exploited the opportunities. Life isnt fair as I said, but what does their success matter to you, the celebrity fad matter to you? It doesn't and the point is an irrelevance to you.
It's not a reason or a demonstration of anything that can be applied across the board and your point about gates is another that shows my point. Of course he'd succeed he knows people. Really, you believe it's that simple?
Right... teenage mothers who got pregnant and decided to keep a baby... the tragedy... I'm afraid I have zero sympathies there.
As for the carer scenario, it is of course unfortunate and they do have my genuine sympathies, but that is also a (very hard) choice that they willingly make out of love and a sense of responsibility. What would you even suggest to fix that situation?
Again as I've said there are always people who's circumstances may prevent them, a carer or health issues are of cours valid but then not always an excuse. Having substance issues is shared by many successful people but also being addicts and kicking it to make something of yourself is also possible, there are many cases of it that I know of close to home. We can always find those who simply can't but for the VAST majority of people those excuses do not apply and I diversiohery, the yea but argument...
Agree completely, you can always find exceptions and especially bad niche situations... that does not however in itself form any good arguments for change.
But who disagreed with that? Of course earlier life problems should not hold you back and frankly, they don't. They may make it harder, but such is life. Park the moan and work on fixing the problem and each time you find yourself looking back or at others with envy slap yourself. The "system" isn't always fair but again that is not a valid excuse in my eyes or a reason for most of the success and failure it's just ANOTHER excuse used by many.
So as I said earlier, people are being punished for a poor descision early in life which may well have been an accident.
Assistance for the carer, IMO the state should be providing the care.
Sorry I was talking about a subsistence life, not a substance life. People that have a subsistence existence don't have any slack to be able to take the opportunities or risks that I can for instance.
Carers do themselves get financial assistance, as do the people getting cared for https://www.gov.uk/carers-allowance/eligibility
The state should look after those who can't look after themselves through no fault of their own. The state should also look after those who dedicate their life to caring for their loved one I agree. Where I disagree is that this decision ALWAYS means a carers life is over for that is preposterous and no way would I call such a decision a mistake or look on a person moving on from faring poorly should they then seek employment. I'd actually be much more willing to help said person as I find such a decision admirable and honourable and I think most business people would do the same.
I know of someone who in the last few years phoned the BBC and gave a job to a lady following said hard luck story. Full time, good wage, close to home to see that person then prove a total waster. THAT is also sad and an example of people who will never amount to anything no matter what or until they wake the **** up.
Sorry on a phone with old eyes
But again to my point it is often harder, much harder for some but that does not mean opportunity isn't thrre, just a bit harder
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I'm aware of this, it still doesn't remove the element where the opportunity to succeed later in life is seriously diminished. I have a friend who cares full time looking after her father, she has given up the prime part of her life where we would all be laying the ground work for our career.
Yes these may be exceptions to the general story but they exist all the same.