Don't forget the (fully deserved if willful and aware that you are impaired) jail sentence too
Should stoned driving be legal?
- Thread starter estebanrey
- Start date
Don't forget the (fully deserved if willful and aware that you are impaired) jail sentence too
Permabanned
- Joined
- 28 Dec 2009
- Posts
- 13,052
- Location
- london
I agree the ultimate gateway drug is tobacco and pharmaceuticals and alcohol. over 95% of heavy drug users say they started with tobacco and alcohol and pharmaceuticals before they tried other drugs and i high percentage of heavy drug users never like cannabis and a even higher percentage of heavy cannabis users never tried any other drugs.
That won't stop the uninformed from arguing that cannabis is a gateway drug. If anything prohibition leads to cannabis being a gateway drug and not cannabis itself. As when they go to a dodgy dealer to buy cannabis on a street corner they often get offered other drugs when if they could purchase cannabis for a shop they wouldn't get offered other drugs.
http://www.scotsman.com/news/health/david-nutt-treat-patients-with-ecstasy-cannabis-1-3690667
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/u...g-law-reform-ahead-of-elections-10046502.html
as soon as the anti-prohibition group gets some movement or head way, the home office funds some propaganda studies that links cannabis to psychological problems or some other nonsense like Vietnamese cannabis farms lol.
Last edited:
So you do think it's a gateway drug then? In that being around it also opens you up to being around other substances. Taking one illegal substances has broken down a barrier towards taking another illegal substance.
You argue it's not a gateway drug, but then state that it is for the very reasons that it is!
You're just like every other user protesting that it should be legalised. You have a vested interest in it as a user, but that isn't enough to legalise it.
I've known plenty of people in my life that have never smoked it, have no interest in trying it but do other "harder" drugs. Also I have known plenty of people who have smoked it and have never tried anything else and don't have any interest in trying anything else. You could say the same about anything being a gateway something in to something else, you'll always get those that say it was their gateway to something harder and those that don't.
Permabanned
- Joined
- 28 Dec 2009
- Posts
- 13,052
- Location
- london
I only think it is a gateway as much as alcohol. 99% of drug users start with alcohol as there first mind and mood altering substance. You never hear alcohol being classed as a gateway drug.
I state that the only way that cannabis is a gateway drug is because it is illegal, not because of cannabis itself. I think the whole notion of "gateway drug" is nonsensical because people start with alcohol and that is never seen as a gateway drug. There are millions of people that have taken cannabis and don't end up taking other drugs. Just like millions of people drink alcohol and don't end up taking other drugs.
Man of Honour
- Joined
- 5 Jun 2003
- Posts
- 91,786
- Location
- Falling...
Since I'm not all that bothered about drugs or even alcohol I was clearly going to have the POV - however as you said, I'd far rather we had safer roads, and why take the chance of having your driving skills compromised? It's unfair to other road users.
Don't forget the (fully deserved if willful and aware that you are impaired) jail sentence too
Damn straight!!
I'd have a hard time believing someone saying they weren't aware they were impaired!
So you agree you shouldn't drive while stoned. Your issues revolve around the current detection methods for those that have recently used the drug and the lack of punishment for those driving under the influence of strong pharmaceutical drugs (which may be covered under another law, I don't honestly know)?
Permabanned
- Joined
- 28 Dec 2009
- Posts
- 13,052
- Location
- london
That is correct. It is as difficult to see that someone is impaired by pharmaceuticals as it is cannabis. I did read a while back that some one in the states invented a "breathalyser for cannabis" that detects use of cannabis within a 12 hour period. If something like that was invented and proved too work without it taking in to account previous days smoking then i would not have a problem with police using it. The thing with cannabis though is that if you smoke at say 10am, by 2pm you are not stoned any more and can drive perfectly fine. This may be difficult for some people who don't smoke to accept but that is just how long the effects last. However if they go out that night and get hit with a test from the police, it will show that they did smoke cannabis within 24 hours and the police can ruin their life. Prohibition or the police ruin more lives than cannabis does. Not many people can speak of cannabis directly negatively affecting their lives, most people who have had negative effect of cannabis in their life were arrested under prohibition and lost their jobs and families as a result of being arrested not the cannabis use on its own.
If it helped to make it legal and regulated and taxed, i am sure people would not mind putting up with stricter rules on driving while under the influence, the problem comes with the implementation of the testing and the interpretation of the results.
Last edited:
Soldato
- Joined
- 25 Nov 2007
- Posts
- 5,581
- Location
- London
Problem with such things is that, all people are different, my reaction speed when drunk is faster than 95% of the population when they are sober, this being a conservative estimate.
IMO zero tolerance policy should be in effect.
IMO zero tolerance policy should be in effect.
Umm yeah, I'm not sure anyone said that cannabis is a drug you take "while clubbing".
Ecstasy has elements of both hard and soft drugs, but is seen by the vast majority of people and users as a recreational or soft drug.
Alcohol, a gateway to ecstasy or LSD? Generally not, because it is perfectly legal and there is no breakdown of a psychological barriers required to use it... we are introduced to it by our families, and society, from a relatively young age.
Last edited:
LSD currently has no accepted medical uses.
LSD has been used as a treatment for cluster headaches with positive results in some small studies
Most illicit drugs have some medical benefit under controlled measures, and most so called bad drugs wont hurt until you abuse them!
A big bag of liberty caps or a triple dipped Chinese ohm acid tab can and does have very negative affects, Suicide and acts of violence have been associated with LSD use. Long-term effects include "flashbacks" and a syndrome of long-term perceptual changes that are experienced as distressing. LSD can temporarily impair the ability to fully understand common dangers and therefore lack awareness to make appropriate judgments, thus making the user more susceptible to personal injury and accidents. For example, self-inflicted testicular amputation
has been noted in medical literature as a result of concurrent LSD and alcohol use. It may also cause temporary confusion, difficulty with abstract thinking, or signs of impaired memory and attention span, this being with relatively small doses. I was diagnosed with Hallucinogen persisting perception disorder (HPPD) one of the least harmful side effects, it is with me 24/7 was very worrying until diagnoses.and its not a good idea to drive whilst under the influence
Soldato
- Joined
- 19 Jun 2012
- Posts
- 5,478
This made me lol.
Re the OP - Any substance which impairs mental ability should not be used before or during driving, and the social acceptance of such substances really has nothing to do with it. Alcohol is widely accepted as being a social drug and like Cannabis it effects people differently - but it is still illegal to use alcohol and drive.
Why, then, should it be any different for Cannabis which, let us not forget, is an illegal substance to start with?
LSD currently has no accepted medical uses.
LSD has been used as a treatment for cluster headaches with positive results in some small studies
Most illicit drugs have some medical benefit under controlled measures, and most so called bad drugs wont hurt until you abuse them!
A big bag of liberty caps or a triple dipped Chinese ohm acid tab can and does have very negative affects, Suicide and acts of violence have been associated with LSD use. Long-term effects include "flashbacks" and a syndrome of long-term perceptual changes that are experienced as distressing. LSD can temporarily impair the ability to fully understand common dangers and therefore lack awareness to make appropriate judgments, thus making the user more susceptible to personal injury and accidents. For example, self-inflicted testicular amputation
and its not a good idea to drive whilst under the influence
Good post, I can't really argue with what you've said but it can help with depression and anxiety, can't remember the case study but there are people out there who take small dosages and no longer require to take anti depresents for several months at a time.
The thing is though while there are negatives and things like you said with self-inflicted testicular amputation people also do some crazy stuff when under the influence of alcohol and other substances. While I believe and it is proven that abuse of the substance can lead to long term effects like what you've said I think it also comes down to the individual also, some people's mental state can be affected more than others. Again I know you've said about relatively small dosages can have adverse effects but that is the same with every substance pretty much from prescription painkillers to LSD, there will always be side effects which some people will be more sensitive to than others
I've never heard of HPPD so I will google that as it sounds interesting, does it affect your day to day life dramatically or are you used to it now?
Permabanned
- Joined
- 28 Dec 2009
- Posts
- 13,052
- Location
- london
If you get caught drink driving. Which imo is far worse at impairing driving and far more likely to cause an accident and statistics show this, you won't necessarily go to jail and lose your job. Although you will prob lose license at least temporarily. For cannabis you could find a situation where you smoked on friday but get tested on sunday and lose your job and family due to a conviction. If it was simply a matter of points on the license or suspension and there was less social repercussions associated then it wouldn't be as bad. It seems alcohol which is far worse at driving impairment seems to get off lighter than cannabis.
Soldato
- Joined
- 20 Oct 2002
- Posts
- 12,006
- Location
- Derby
ROFL! Yes... Sure they are... You will probably think you are but I highly doubt that is the case.
Soldato
- Joined
- 15 Aug 2007
- Posts
- 15,788
- Location
- Outside in the bushes
I've seen evidence to the contrary and actually MJ is banned in motorsport and in most marksman events due to the fact that so long as you don't overdo it it actually improves your hand eye coodination giving you an unfair advantage... however overdo it and you will negate those effects.
Soldato
- Joined
- 16 Aug 2009
- Posts
- 8,193
Speaking as someone who used to have to work with a pothead after a few would be irrational and paranoid and tending towards aggression, and that was as a passenger theres no way on earth I'd ever have let him get behind the wheel, period.
Christ did those things stink too.
Christ did those things stink too.
That's because 99% of people that imbibe alcohol never move onto illicit substances, rendering the entire post moot.
You really must try harder.
...and yet alcohol isn't against the law. Break the law and have more severe punishments. What's difficult to understand there?
Drinking - not illegal
Driving when over the legal alcohol limit - illegal
Smoking cannabis - illegal
Driving when under the influence of illegal substances - doubly illegal and therefore carrying harsher punishment
Seems spot on to me.