Unemployed yoof to pick up litter in return for benefits...

cheesyboy said:
For someone born with a relative silver spoon, and who was fortunate to be of an age to gain employment before the biggest recession in nearly 100 years hit the country, you really could benefit from trying to use more imagination as to what things are like for people who do not benefit from those privileges.

You can't see how people can not have a job so long, because you are completely lacking in comprehension as to what being unemployed and inexperienced is like in a massively oversubscribed job market.
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Don't see how my 'relative silver spoon' upbringing has much to do with it. Pretty sure my employers saw my grades and achievments on my CV long before giving me and interview and then knowing any personal background.

I guess I do lack comprehension. But then again I have family members/ acquaintances who are new to working age and the world of work, they seem to be finding jobs easily enough. Might not be what they ultimately want to do with life but they have jobs. Might be because they are driven, did well at school / uni.

Might have nothing to do with that though. Might be because all of them have silver spoons in their mouths.

EDIT; the irony is it's probably university students that struggle the most. The bunch that Labour thought would be a good idea to have 50% of the population degree educated? 21 years old with no experience, competing against 18 year olds with 3 years experience. Some graduates expecting a ridiculous starting salary. Sometimes even having a degree that has nothing to do with the job you are applying for. Worst part is probably that the 'University' you attended, employers probably don't really view it as a University at all.
 
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balky12 said:
Don't see how my 'relative silver spoon' upbringing has much to do with it. Pretty sure my employers saw my grades and achievments on my CV long before giving me and interview and then knowing any personal background.

I guess I do lack comprehension. But then again I have family members/ acquaintances who are new to working age and the world of work, they seem to be finding jobs easily enough. Might not be what they ultimately want to do with life but they have jobs. Might be because they are driven, did well at school / uni.

Might have nothing to do with that though. Might be because all of them have silver spoons in their mouths.
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You're frustrating to debate with, Balks, because you consistently fail to see the whole picture with almost everything you say.

You know the bit about "grades and achievements" and "did well at school"? Given your and your acquaintances did quite well, you must be measuring that against something. Were you measuring against other people? I would assume "Yes"

So what of those other people who didn't do so well. Might they struggle more for employment? Should they just be tossed aside, humiliated and forgotten?

Ideally, there would be enough jobs to go around. There aren't. Some people have to lose. Those who benefit from the system really shouldn't be so brutal towards those who don't.
 
I'm for this if it's a case of 2 hours a day 5 times a week, (Basically, enough to pay their JSA)

Anymore hours and it's bordering on exploitation.

Also, when I was on JSA, I was unable to volunteer in a role (To gain work experience) which would be a paid position for someone else (As the JSA argument was that you'd be taking a paid job off the market and doing it for free).
 
cheesyboy said:
So what of those other people who didn't do so well. Might they struggle more for employment? Should they just be tossed aside, humiliated and forgotten
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Hold up, humiliated?

If I wasn't in work I'd happily have something to do, keep me active and get paid for it, heck that'd be like being back at work which would be great. I don't understand why people think litter picking is humiliation, is working in a soup kitchen, picking up old furniture for charities or recycling now all humiliation too?

I already pick up litter in my own street as most of it gets blown into my hedge anyway lol
 
Halfmad said:
Hold up, humiliated?

If I wasn't in work I'd happily have something to do, keep me active and get paid for it, heck that'd be like being back at work which would be great. I don't understand why people think litter picking is humiliation, is working in a soup kitchen, picking up old furniture for charities or recycling now all humiliation too?

I already pick up litter in my own street as most of it gets blown into my hedge anyway lol
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There are a number of posts seemingly taking delight in the humiliation aspect of such work.

I wouldn't personally consider the work humiliating, but they seem to think it's a good idea because they consider it humiliating.

I would tend to agree with you;
cheesyboy said:
The actual principle, which is reasonable, is that getting out and doing some form of job or community work is actually beneficial to an individual. That's both in terms of health and wellbeing, and in terms of employability, and in terms of preparing for real work, and in terms of feeling part of the community.
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cheesyboy said:
You're frustrating to debate with, Balks, because you consistently fail to see the whole picture with almost everything you say.

You know the bit about "grades and achievements" and "did well at school"? Given your and your acquaintances did quite well, you must be measuring that against something. Were you measuring against other people? I would assume "Yes"

Ideally, there would be enough jobs to go around. There aren't. Some people have to lose. Those who benefit from the system really shouldn't be so brutal towards those who don't.
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I have a career in arguing, so it helps.

No I am just using the UK grading system. The grades I achieved show that I did well.

You are focusing on a small snapshot of society at one given time. Yes there are winners and losers, people get employed and made redundant all the time. Job markets shift, etc.

Someone should not be funded for free for long term unemployment. I agree people need help. But if you are struggling to get the job you want, then re-train. Look at other options. You should not be able to sit there and claim benefits for the long term 6months+ because you can't get your dream job.

It sounds brutal because that's life and the truth. Yes someone might be unemployed for a while due to a million and one factors. Yes they deserve and should get help.

6 months down the line people need to be asking questions, the individual especially. Why can I not find another job, why are people not employing me? Is my job now completely redundant as a role in the workforce (outdated, etc.). Am I not qualified enough? Is the market just saturated and hardened? Is it me as a person?
 
Martini1991 said:
Also, when I was on JSA, I was unable to volunteer in a role (To gain work experience) which would be a paid position for someone else (As the JSA argument was that you'd be taking a paid job off the market and doing it for free).
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The way you get around this is by changing the rules, which is what they are doing

It would no longer be JSA, but YA (Youth Allowance) - which is exactly the same amount of money as JSA but means you can do 30 hrs community work, 10 hrs job searching and still be eligible for it
 
dowie said:
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...aim-wrong-receive-handouts-straight-away.html



Seems fair to me, 6 months dole then if you've not sorted your life out/got a job or decided to pursue a qualification you can do something to help out in return for the cash the rest of us are paying you....

The other news story re: people with obesity etc.. facing sanctions if they don't take steps to help themselves seems like a good move too. Hopefully we'll get child benefit capped at 2 children going forward too if a Tory govt gets in again....
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seems sensible, basically make benefits rather than free money a "the government will find you a job if you need one but it may be a **** one"


like star ship troopers (the book) government service is needed to be done to earn the right to vote however the government is required to find suitable service for anyone regardless of ability or disability, if someone wants to do it they had to find something for them.
 
2 days a week fine.... Market rate for JSA.
If they receive other benefits add it onto the top as extra hours work.

Will be an utter nightmare anyway. Who wants to work with 12 aggro, skiving chavs cleaning up dual carriageway verges?

Saves a load of money employing real people tho innit?
 
DJMK4 said:
Maybe it will push people harder to get a proper paid job
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Very few under twenty one year olds manage to stay on the dole fir long without being sanctioned anyway, there is no long term unemployed problem in the UK, anyone who is on the dole long enough to be repeatedly sanctioned for failing to find work is actually supporting themselves through crime.

Or is ill and should be on sick benefits.
 
Freakbro said:
The other 10 hours a week, after the 30, is supposed to be for Job Searching.

So I guess it's a motivator to find a paying job, even a min wage one.
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I'm not talking about the other 10 hours, rather paying people minimum wage for their work (the 30 hours), rather than paying them a third of the minimum wage.
 
Efour said:
2 days a week fine.... Market rate for JSA.
If they receive other benefits add it onto the top as extra hours work.

Will be an utter nightmare anyway. Who wants to work with 12 aggro, skiving chavs cleaning up dual carriageway verges?

Saves a load of money employing real people tho innit?
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Again, can we stop just focussing on picking up litter :p

What about 12 aggro, skiving chavs cooking meals and delivering them to the eldery....that's going to work just as well isn't it!
 
Maybe tax dodging companies can sack their minimum wage workers and take in a slew of new slaves and the state pays them £2 quid an hour and the companies can make even bigger "losses" and these "losses" could then find their way to Tory party coffers via offshore tax havens?

Everybody wins, well apart from the saps on £2 an hour.
 
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