Any employment law experts?

tintin82

tintin82

tintin82

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I am hoping that someone with a good knowledge of employment law might be able to help out or point me in the right direction with this one, or tell me I don't have a leg to stand on!

Employer 'A' took over the worksite and workforce of employer 'B'. Under the terms of the takeover all employees were told they were to receive a retention bonus after 3 years, this was written into contract.

Shortly after the take over new employees were hired (including myself). Employer 'A' told us at the interview that there was a retainer scheme that would pay out in 3 years. This was never written into contract. But we were told at the interview and were under the assumption that we would be getting the bonus.

Fast forward 2 years and it appears that the company are now dragging their heels in regard to the new employees . When we enquire about the pay date for the bonus they claim they are yet to hear the final word higher up the management chain if this will in fact be honored.

We believe they are dragging the heels in a carrot on stick fashion to avoid some of us walking for now.

There is a long email history between employee and HR where we are told in emails that we will be getting the bonus, but as the months goes on these emails become less committal.

So, the question. Is a employer liable to pay a bonus to a person who is under the impression that they are getting a bonus, and the employer is fully aware that the person is under that impression, and does little to tell the employee otherwise, even if it is not written into contract?

Thanks for any direction
 
You'll struggle if it's not in writing. However...that email chain certainly counts for a lot. You'd certainly have enough to get it to court. The very threat of which could be enough to swing it.
 
Why didn't you query that the mentioned bonus wasn't in the contract at the time you signed it ?

If it's not in the contract you're screwed
 
Yes, I admit that I should have asked for the bonus details in writing when signing my contract. My excuse for that is that it was such a given at the time that there was no concern... hindsight!

Regards the 'my word against theirs', its more like 'their word against mine, 12 others, and a mass of emails implying that we would be liable to receive the bonus' This is the basis of the discussion, its not my word against theirs.

Regarding the medical threads. Surely they are not allowed as incorrect information can lead to physical harm. This thread is discussing employment law, what the big deal? If this is not allowed then why not take down the stock market thread and all other investing threads, as they are giving financial advice in a round a bout way...
 
[FnG]magnolia;27660820 said:
This is nonsense.

OP, get a solicitor to look at it and go from there.
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How is it nonsense? He's got it in writing - albeit unofficially that this bonus exists along with the criteria for the bonus. The trouble would come when the company denied that the hr individuals in the email had any authority to discuss such things and that's where the judge would make their decision.

Whilst verbal contracts are binding they tend to be nigh on impossible to prove if their are no independent witnesses.
 
I have some experience with employment law (TU rep for 11 years + diploma in employment law) and IMHO I think you'll struggle, but something worth looking at is if you have an written (emails, letters, meeting minutes etc) corespondence on the matter. Even if that written correspondence doesn't sepcifically mention the T&C of the retention bonus, the fact that's it's being talked about might be enough to persuade an employment tirubunal that such a T&C exists, and that you have a reasonable expectation to recieve it.

I think your best chance is to collect any evidence and present it to HR (don't go through your managment, bypass them and go straight to HR). If they stone wall you, then I'm afraid without union support (can I assume you aren't in a union?) and unless you're willing to pay upto £1200 for an ET, then I think you're onto a loser.
 
amigafan2003 said:
I have some experience with employment law (TU rep for 11 years + diploma in employment law) and IMHO I think you'll struggle, but something worth looking at is if you have an written (emails, letters, meeting minutes etc) corespondence on the matter. Even if that written correspondence doesn't sepcifically mention the T&C of the retention bonus, the fact that's it's being talked about might be enough to persuade an employment tirubunal that such a T&C exists, and that you have a reasonable expectation to recieve it.

I think your best chance is to collect any evidence and present it to HR (don't go through your managment, bypass them and go straight to HR). If they stone wall you, then I'm afraid without union support (can I assume you aren't in a union?) and unless you're willing to pay upto £1200 for an ET, then I think you're onto a loser.
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Thanks for the advice. The management are well aware of the situation, and the collective bill for the bonus runs well into six figures so HR cannot push it through.

Basically we think it comes down to a bit of a screw up in communication between management and HR whereas HR were telling new employees that they would get the bonus, now management have a whiff they are delaying to sign it off as they didn't authorize it.

That is fine, they can cancel it, that's not the point. My point is that they are delaying giving a definitive word because they want to hold on to very valued members of the team for as long as they can. At least this is what I think!
 
Did the employer talk about how much this was?

Imho they made a mistake offering it to you, employee's A got it to stay on and stick with the job after the transition to new owners and somebody has spoken out of turn when they offered you the job.

If I were them I would give you a bonus but it wouldn't be very large, just to slide the possibility of a ET.
 
Section 27 of the Employment Rights Act 1996 defines wages as "any sums payable to a worker [by his employer] in connection with his employment... including any fee, bonus, commission, holiday pay or other emolument referable to his employment, whether payable under his contract or otherwise."

Section 230(3) of the Act defines a worker as "an individual who has entered into or works under (or where employment has ceased worked under)

(a) a contract of employment; or
(b) ant other contract, whether express or implied and (if it is express) whether oral or in writing, whereby the individual undertakes to do or perform personally any work or services for another party to the contract whose status is not by virtue of the contract that of a client or customer of any profession or business undertaking carried on by the individual."

Right, that's my lot. I'm not at work but I hope that helps somewhat. There's plenty of employment tribunal decisions on this sort of stuff so start looking there and put yourself a comprehensive letter together and get a bunch of you to sign it. Make sure you append those emails and importantly, keep a copy of whatever you send for yourself.
 
How many employee Bs are there? How much difficulty would they be in if you collectively walked out?

Definitely get proper legal advice but if that failed then my next step would be to all look for new jibs and try to coordinate a mass resignation through principle.
 
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J-FRO said:
Section 27 of the Employment Rights Act 1996 defines wages as "any sums payable to a worker [by his employer] in connection with his employment... including any fee, bonus, commission, holiday pay or other emolument referable to his employment, whether payable under his contract or otherwise."

Section 230(3) of the Act defines a worker as "an individual who has entered into or works under (or where employment has ceased worked under)

(a) a contract of employment; or
(b) ant other contract, whether express or implied and (if it is express) whether oral or in writing, whereby the individual undertakes to do or perform personally any work or services for another party to the contract whose status is not by virtue of the contract that of a client or customer of any profession or business undertaking carried on by the individual."

Right, that's my lot. I'm not at work but I hope that helps somewhat. There's plenty of employment tribunal decisions on this sort of stuff so start looking there and put yourself a comprehensive letter together and get a bunch of you to sign it. Make sure you append those emails and importantly, keep a copy of whatever you send for yourself.
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Just the stuff I was looking for, thanks so much!
 
Hades said:
How many employee Bs are there? How much difficulty would they be in if you collectively walked out?

Definitely get proper legal advice but if that failed then my next step would be to all look for new jibs and try to coordinate a mass resignation through principle.
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There are around 13 employees. I am not keen to engage in collective action as its all well and good for me to follow up words and letters with action (resigning), but its a different story for others to guarantee that level of unified action.
 
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