Yamaha RX-V777 issues

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We're in the process of installing our AV equipment but are experiencing some trouble with the AV receiver.

We have a HDBASE-T matrix feeding a Sky HD box to all TVs, while the main living room ceiling speakers are connected to the amp with an optical cable from the Sky Box. The problem arises when we try to output Sky 5.1; the sound is very low and when the volume is turned up a red bar over the volume is displayed. I assume advising this is not a safe level?

I've attached two images of what happens:





Here's an image of the sound settings, if it helps.



Any ideas how to sort this?

Thanks,
Johnny
 
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Have you used the mic to recalibrate the setup? - YMAO or something its called, give that a try first bud as that will check your speaker setup from your seating position.
 
Have you used the mic to recalibrate the setup? - YMAO or something its called, give that a try first bud as that will check your speaker setup from your seating position.

The problem is, it's in a media cupboard in another room, so this isn't an option.
 
It sounds like there's some issue with the speakers: Either the speaker impedance isn't suitable or the way they are wired means theat the load is out of spec or there's a filament of wire shorting a terminal somewhere.

Start off by disconnecting the speakers, then try the volume with no speakers attached. With no load the amp should go all the way up to +16dB without issue.

Power off, then connect one speaker. Try the volume to -20dB. Power off, add another speaker and repeat. Keep going until you find the point where you're starting to have issues. That tells you either the speaker or the combination that's an issue.

BTW the source side of things isn't where the issue lies. The test tones showed that. It's the speakers or the speaker wiring.
 
Thats exactly what the YMAO thingie does lucid - sets the correct impedance and speakers levels etc to match the actual dB outputs.

Just get an extension cable for the mic, plug it in and re-run, it'll tell you if theres wrong connection too.
 
Thats exactly what the YMAO thingie does lucid - sets the correct impedance and speakers levels etc to match the actual dB outputs.
Thanks, but I'm well aware of what YPAO does; I sell and install this kind of gear for a living :D

I still maintain that the speaker or wiring are where there's an issue.
 
It sounds like there's some issue with the speakers: Either the speaker impedance isn't suitable or the way they are wired means theat the load is out of spec or there's a filament of wire shorting a terminal somewhere.

Start off by disconnecting the speakers, then try the volume with no speakers attached. With no load the amp should go all the way up to +16dB without issue.

Power off, then connect one speaker. Try the volume to -20dB. Power off, add another speaker and repeat. Keep going until you find the point where you're starting to have issues. That tells you either the speaker or the combination that's an issue.

BTW the source side of things isn't where the issue lies. The test tones showed that. It's the speakers or the speaker wiring.

Thanks.

Is it possible the wiring is damaged, or just the terminations into the speakers and amp?

We have 6 ohm speakers, but left the setting at 8 ohm on the amp, as advised in other material I've read online - is this advisable?

We have 3 x Monitor Audio CT265-IDC for LCR, and 2 x CT265-FX for surrounds, and 2 x CT265 for zone 2 in the games room.

Appreciate your help with this,
Johnny
 
Is it possible the wiring is damaged, or just the terminations into the speakers and amp?
Any of those things are possible. You're there, not me. So only you can answer those questions.

Your last post is the first time you've mentioned a make and impedance of the speakers. Monitor Audio make decent speakers. However, it could just have as easily been some 3 Ohm cubes or towers from an old all-in-one system which would be a nightmare to drive.

Wiring: as long as you know the speakers aren't horrible then wiring is the first place I look for issues. The most common mistake is when putting bare wire in to terminal connections. What happens is a single filament or two of the wire misses the terminal hole and then sticks out. If this touched the other terminal then the amp will behave okay at low volumes but misbehave at higher levels. Take a torch, check for loose filaments.

I'm presuming you wired you speakers direct? i.e. one speaker per pair of terminals; and you haven't daisy-chained any of the speakers???

6 or 8 Ohm. You say you have been advised to leave the amp on 8 Ohm with 6 Ohm speakers. Advice like that is usually based on some idea that the Wattage from the amp increases as the speaker impedance falls. That is actually true, but it's not the whole story. But let's come back to impedance for a minute.

If a 6 Ohm speaker makes the amp produce more Watts compared to an 8 Ohm speaker, then surely a 5 Ohm will make even more Watts?! But why stop there. Why not a 4 or 3 or 2 or even a 1 Ohm speaker: Surely the wattage would be enormous?

The answer is "Yes it would" But the closer the load gets to zero Ohms then more it looks- and behaves- like a short across the speaker terminals. That's a sure fire way to kill an amp.

As the Ohms of the load decreases then the current that is drawn goes up. This is what's responsible for the power increase. The speaker is sucking more and more current from the amp.

If we take an amp producing 100W @ 8Ohm and feed an 8 Ohm speaker over 10m of 1.3mm cross section cable then the speaker receives about 94W @ 3.4 amps.

Change the Ohms to 6; the wattage goes up to 122W but the current goes up too - 4.5A. So, there's no such thing as a free lunch.

No amp can provide unlimited current. There comes a point where the amp gets sucked dry. If you're lucky then the amp will overheat and shut down. If not, then it will blow the output transistors and that's an expensive repair.

Drop the amp rating to 6 Ohm and it delivers a shade under 93 Watts @ 3.5A. The difference in power 8 Ohm/8 Ohm vs 6 Ohm/6 Ohm is negligible. The current is close too. However, the amp isn't likely to melt itself or blow up.

There are two other factors to consider. The first is that a speaker isn't a fixed load. The impedance varies with frequency. The speaker could go higher than 18 Ohm and as little as 3 Ohm. There's also phase to consider too. At 3 Ohm the speaker is sucking over 8.5A!

The second factor is cable: it's thickness and length. If you have used bell wire then it will dissipate more power than thicker leads.

Personally, I'd change the amp to 6 Ohm too.
 
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Thanks for taking the time to explain.

I'll change the amp setting to 6 ohms, and post back early next week with an update.

Johnny
 
The red warning at -20db started to come up after a recent update to the iPhone app it doesn't relate to any unsafe operating levels on the amp, it happens with both my Yamaha amps now and they will happily continue up to 0DB where I have set the max volume. I don't find -20db particularly loud for movie watching I generally have it around -10 to -15db. General TV watching is around -20db

I also had to up the gain on the digital feed from my Sky box to bring it inline with everything else, not sure if your amp has it but I used the Yamaha receiver software that runs on your PC and connects to the amp over the network connection I found this much easier to set up the amp than the OSD. After Sky updated the software on the newer boxes to enable 5.1 over the HDMI connection I now use this for both video and 5.1 sound which doesn't need the level changed.

One of my amps is also a fair distance from the speakers, I used a 5m 1.5mm jack extension lead to plug in the YPAO microphone which seemed to work fine, all the speaker distances came back as expected.
 
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The red warning at -20db started to come up after a recent update to the iPhone app it doesn't relate to any unsafe operating levels on the amp, it happens with both my Yamaha amps now and they will happily continue up to 0DB where I have set the max volume. I don't find -20db particularly loud for movie watching I generally have it around -10 to -15db. General TV watching is around -20db

I also had to up the gain on the digital feed from my Sky box to bring it inline with everything else, not sure if your amp has it but I used the Yamaha receiver software that runs on your PC and connects to the amp over the network connection I found this much easier to set up the amp than the OSD. After Sky updated the software on the newer boxes to enable 5.1 over the HDMI connection I now use this for both video and 5.1 sound which doesn't need the level changed.

One of my amps is also a fair distance from the speakers, I used a 5m 1.5mm jack extension lead to plug in the YPAO microphone which seemed to work fine, all the speaker distances came back as expected.

That's reassuring about the app. I've contacted Yamaha explaining the issues we were having so hopefully they fix this.

We don't use any of the HDMI outputs (except for initial setup) and only connected optical and RCA for the Sky Boxes for Zone 1 and 2 respectively. The Sky boxes are distributed throughout the house using a HDBASE-T matrix to each TV.

With regard to the YPAO mic, the media cupboard is actually on the level above the living room, so makes it even more difficult to utilise; is there any benefit using this over manual settings?

We're going to the new house tomorrow so will post back with results of the re-connection of the speakers (only 1 was not outputting sound).

Johnny
 
When I first read your post I didn't think you had any issue with your system as -20db isn't really loud but now you have mentioned a speaker isn't working that may be causing issues.

I just ran the test tone on my living room system which has similar speakers to your ones (Yamaha 3067, Monitor Audio W380-LCR & C380-FX speakers) and at -20db the test tone isn't loud I could easily have a normal conversation with someone next to me if I wanted. Listening to Sky just now -20 to -17db sounds a normal volume for dialogue, -30db is quiet I wouldn't really listen to it under -25db, I have the amp set to a start up volume of -22db.

When you say quiet what are you comparing this to ? As an example at -10db on a sky music channel would be where I would need to start raising my voice to have a conversation. A movie at 0db is loud any higher would be uncomfortable the bass is rattling your rib cage and can make your hair move you wouldn't be able to talk to the person next to you without shouting during an action scene.

The YPAO setup should give a better result than manual setup as it takes into account room acoustics which can't be input manually. You ideally also want a good sound pressure meter to get the levels right.
 
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Went to the house yesterday and managed to fix the speaker that was not outputting sound - it was just a loose termination.

I've noticed that anything quieter than -20db is not really loud and need Sky on between -5db and -10db whilst watching a movie, so this sounds normal.

I contacted Yamaha with regards to the red warning and they have assured this is not an unsafe volume level, but just a indicator that it is at a higher volume.

Still have one issue though with the 'Net Radio' function. We have connected the amp to the BT hub directly, but receive the following errors on the IOS app and on-screen:





The amp has an IP address and the IOS app works within the network, so I don't understand why this isn't working? Do any specific ports have to be open/forwarded on the BT hub?

Johnny
 
You shouldn't need to open any ports on the router, both my amps worked with Net Radio out of the box. I would check for any firmware updates for your amp as Yamaha released one recently for the network streaming services so may have made a change to the net radio function.
 
The amp has an IP address and the IOS app works within the network, so I don't understand why this isn't working? Do any specific ports have to be open/forwarded on the BT hub?

Johnny
You're sure that the router has a connection to the internet? i.e. you've checked the router set-up page and made sure that there's a connection for both upstream and downstream.

Also, is this the first time you've run the BT HomeHub? IMO they're a PITA. They try to sit some kind of filtering interface page between your home LAN and the internet that ends up blocking traffic unless you tick a few boxes. Hook up a laptop or tablet and just check what the router is actually doing. Barring faulty network cables then 9 times out of 10 it's a BT Hub trying to be too clever for its own good.
 
The firmware was the first thing I updated shortly after setting up the amp.

The hub has been recently installed, but is working as expected - no connectivity issues.

Any other ideas?
 
I've noticed that anything quieter than -20db is not really loud and need Sky on between -5db and -10db whilst watching a movie, so this sounds normal.

Blimey, maybe I'm mis-interpreting something here, but my RX-V675 at -35dB in a movie is absolutely booming :confused:
 
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