Netanyahu: Iran a threat to the world.

He's got it in a nutshell, the Persian arrogance and disdain towards there neighbours overrides any feelings of indifference Pakistanis might have towards the Iranian people.

Whereas Pakistan could view persians as corrupt, treacherous, heretic and effeminate.


It's vaguely similar to how the western Christians viewed the eastern Christians of Constantinople.
 
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Haven't seen it mentioned, but for those interested the US senate is in hot water right now after a bunch of them illegally wrote/sent an open letter to the leaders of Iran basically telling them it doesn't matter what they agree with Obama as a future president can just annul it on a whim.

I think it was designed to sound all smart and stuff but in reality it just gives the impression to other countries that America shouldn't be trusted lol.
 
Two posts above yours!

Yeah, didn't actually mention it though just a link and run.


The Republicans love to have a tantrum whenever they're not in the White House. I doubt they were expecting the backlash either. McCain has already backpeddled, and I see Cotton going under the bus at some point.

Not surprised, it turns out they can be fined and/or imprisoned for what they have done :O
 
Well written. Hopefully it'll shut the sabre rattlers up for a while. :D

It doesn't look like Netanyahu is doing well in the polls either, perhaps the Israeli people aren't quite as worried about Iran as he likes to make out...
 
Well I am from that region and say there is that animosity something you've said you've never heard said.
I am aware that is you're opinion i'm just not certain your views are reflective of Iranian society. Lets be honest here you would probably be hung from a lamppost in Iran and if I remember you left as a child.

But now you have! But I know you'll never believe me so to save you all that intellectual googling I'll just simply offer this.

http://www.quora.com/What-do-Iranians-think-about-Pakistanis (first hit when you type the actual question rather than wiki'ing it to death)

Now from that you can see most people are pre-prejudiced to indifferent. Comfortingly enough with actual experience judging people on who they are rather than what we thought they may be.

I'm not sure "yahoo answers" equivalent is a reliable source to back up your claim, but even at face value I'm not sure it supports your argument which is Pakistan and Iran are traditional foes. Not to mention the top rated comment is "The ones I know are very smart, passionate, kind and reliable friends. Share a lot of cultural elements, and we could make very good friends as Iranians and Pakistanis." I'm pretty sure that's the opposite of what you are saying. There is actually a thread on reddit which is relatively positive overall http://www.reddit.com/r/iran/comments/29d0b8/riran_what_do_you_think_of_pakistan/ with most distrust coming from pakistans relationship with Saudi rather than the people themselves.

I think the first post is very pertinent there. You have to remember the most important texts in Iran are poetry not religious. That is the spirit of the people - the country would maybe more akin to France or Italy than anything in the region. There is the same superiority because the neighbouring countries are so deficient in anything that a Persian would value: art, music, poetry, humanity, etc. Read MickeyFinns cycle ride and you'll see evidence of that when he passed through.

I'm aware of Iranian culture and how it differs from those around it, Lebanon is another nation which is different to most around it culturally. None of this supports the traditional foes argument.

That is why there was such a strong reaction when the USA rejected Iranian help after 9/11. Not only did they turn away their best chance of help in the whole region they also cast aside a people who saw themselves as near relatives.

Who great satan?

I would also respectfully point out trade relations between neighbouring countries is not indicative of the actual feeling.

I think you will find relations the two nations have been involved with are beyond merely trade relations as I have shown earlier. The gas pipeline is trade relations, helping each other out in war isn't.

Try wearing an England football kit around Glasgow and we'll time how long you last.

Perhaps, but I would suggest the recent vote says otherwise, unless yobs in Glasgow are for you reflective of Scotland. Not to mention the documented history between the two nations spanning hundreds of years including wars and conquests, unlike Pakistan-Iran.

One more thing you will never determine the animosity if you just google Iran and Pakistan and try and support an argument based upon that when they are both very different constructs. Iran will largely be seen as Persia to its inhabitants because Persia embodies the cultural dimension that they value whereas Pakistan was an entity of migration prior to its formation and derived from a lot of cultures that the Persians found quite distasteful eg animism and Zoroastrian derived even if Islamic in name.

Surely if such an animosity existed it would be relatively easy to find, but it appears the opposite is true. You seems to think being culturally different, which they are, results in them seeing each other as enemies. At best you could say they were indifferent. Not to mention Urdu and Farsi share many words and are quite similar, in fact my mother speaks fluent farsi, and a comment from a Iranian redditor "I love their poetry, particularly Iqbal. They have a lot of very nice intellectuals and scientists (the only Muslim to ever win a Nobel Physics Prize was a Pakistani)."

So in summary the cultured will always look down on the uncultured that has always been the way throughout time. And often that has manifested itself as conflict. A lot of Persians envisage Pakistanis as dirty, illiterate zealots.

Perhaps these are you own personal feelings and prejudices derived from the UK, which you are conflating as a broader Iranian feeling. As I mentioned earlier, and i'm sure you would agree, you as a person are not very reflective of Iranian society.

Let me ask you one simple question - which borders is Iran having regular skirmishes along with another nations military.

I think something happened with toxic gas not long ago, and I think they are involved in a bloody war on a certain border. Even so I'm not sure rather recent terrorist active which derive mainly within Irans own borders from separatists groups and on occasion from outside its borders really helps your argument of Pakistan and Iran being tradition foes.

Anyhow enough time wasted on subject, as said above its simply a case of agree to disagree. I was genuinely only interested as its not feeling I have ever come across and I know a few Iranians, I actually went to a gig including Iranian stand ups and a couple of them gave shout outs to Pakistani parts of the crowd. If there was a such a view amongs the peoples the below would really be odd.

Iran0003.png


http://www.pewglobal.org/files/2012/05/Iran0003.png
 
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Shame Pakistan refused to recognise that Abdul Salam was even a Muslim at the time he won his Nobel Prize so he exiled himself....even today the Pakistani authorities refuse to recognise he was a Muslim, defacing his headstone....so using the same authoritative logic (where the authority lies with the recognition of the Governments rather than the People themselves) Abdul Salam wasn't the first Muslim to win a Science Nobel Prize, as he wasn't a Muslim.

That's if you follow Craterloads reasoning on who has authority in these things of course.

And as far as how its neighbours see Iran,

Pakistan 71% look at Iran unfavourably.

http://b.3cdn.net/aai/e0d4a9526e99a0a082_0zm6be3h4.pdf

Less than one quarter of respondents in Pakistan, Turkey, and Azerbaijan view Iran favorably (24%, 22%, and 20%, respectively). There is a significant split on Iran between Sunni and Shia respondents in Pakistan (85% Sunni unfavorable vs. 94% Shia favorable) and in Turkey (88% Sunni unfavorable vs. 92% Shia favorable).
 
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Shame Pakistan refused to recognise that Abdul Salam was even a Muslim at the time he won his Nobel Prize so he exiled himself....even today the Pakistani authorities refuse to recognise he was a Muslim, defacing his headstone....so using the same authoritative logic (where the authority lies with the recognition of the Governments rather than the People themselves) Abdul Salam wasn't the first Muslim to win a Science Nobel Prize, as he wasn't a Muslim.

Not that it matters but I don't really think Pakistani leaders have say on who is or isn't Muslim.

That's if you follow Craterloads reasoning on who has authority in these things of course.

And as far as how its neighbours see Iran,

Pakistan 71% look at Iran unfavourably.

http://b.3cdn.net/aai/e0d4a9526e99a0a082_0zm6be3h4.pdf

Why is it you keep interrupting when you made clear yesterday you agreed to disagree? Not to mention I initially questioned Xordium and now am replying to him?

Anyhow, from 2014

Iran-Report-3.png


http://www.pewglobal.org/2014/06/18/irans-global-image-largely-negative/

The only country where Iran's favorability rating scores above 50 percent is Pakistan, with 76 percent giving the rogue state a positive review

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs...stan-overwhelmingly-disliked-everywhere-else/
 
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Not that it matters but I don't really think Pakistani leaders have say on who is or isn't Muslim.

They do in Pakistan.


Why is it you keep interrupting when you made clear yesterday you agreed to disagree? Not to mention I initially questioned Xordium and now am replying to him?

Because it's an open forum...and the evidence you supplied is directly contradictable by other evidence, as shown, particularly as the Poll I supplied was far larger, more specific and more widely representative than the Pew Polls you supplied when you look at the methodology.
 
They do in Pakistan.

So, who cares. And they don't really do they given religion is also a personal thing.

Because it's an open forum...and the evidence you supplied is directly contradictable by other evidence, as shown, particularly as the Poll I supplied was far larger, more specific and more widely representative than the Pew Polls you supplied when you look at the methodology.

Yes and you stated you agreed to disagree, but here you are again when not replying to your last post essentially agreed to your terms....

Anyhow the poll I supplied which can be dated back many years is pretty conclusive. The BBC and many other mainstream sites have used them as sources so am happy with their results.

And they aren't the only poll either.

And it wouldnt be the first time Zogby polls have been questioned in the region and on how Iran is seen as favourable/unfavourable.

The Pew Research Center's results went farther in contradicting Zogby International's findings, indicating that respondents in Lebanon, returned the highest levels of favourable ratings for the United States among all Arab countries. It was a finding hardly consistent with an overwhelming approval of Iran.

When asked about the United States, 49 per cent of respondents gave a favourable response, indicating that America is more popular than Hizbollah inside Lebanon. According to Pew, this trend has held steady for more than a decade, with a marked jump in favourability ratings in 2005, when US diplomatic efforts joined most Lebanese people in calling for an end to Syria's military occupation.

So which is to be believed? Is Iran or America winning the battle for hearts and minds in Lebanon?

While no one can provide a definitive answer, a closer look at the methodology of both surveys indicates that the sample size of Pew's poll is nearly double that of Zogby International's, and is seemingly more representative.

Polling methodology and technicalities aside, the dramatic nature of Zogby International's findings defy longstanding political trends, communal realities and the general intuition in the opinion of many Middle East observers. The numbers need to be explained, not only in terms of the methodology but the underlying assumptions. Even a poll conducted by the Hizbollah-affiliated Beirut Research Center could not point to the same widespread acceptance of Iranian interference as the Zogby poll did.

The conclusions of the Zogby International poll make sweeping statements not just about Lebanon but about all of the Arab countries that were surveyed. Those results can affect government policy and shape public attitudes in a self-fulfilling manner. Given Zogby International's established polling credibility in US politics and beyond, there needs to be more clarity on the results of this recent poll - and why they differ so widely from other surveys and Middle East conventional wisdom.

At best your poll is simply superseded by a newer one since zogby's is 4 year old and PEWs in upto date with out even bringing in the fact of questional reliability of the poll and how representative it truly was or wasn't. Also bear in mind, from zogby himself

First, the poll showed declining support for Iran throughout the Arab world. In 2006, Zogby noted, 80 percent of Arabs held a positive view of Iran. “Since then, there has been a steady drop,” he said, pointing out that Iran is now viewed negatively in 14 of the 20 countries polled. Yemen, Lebanon, Iraq, Algeria and Libya are the only countries where Iran is viewed favorably, Zogby said, while Kuwait is evenly split.

In the opinion of Haleh Esfandiari, director of the Wilson Center’s Middle East program, the Iranian regime’s harsh response to the 2009 Green Movement severely damaged the country’s reputation in the region. “I think suddenly the Arab street was faced with the brutality of the Iranian regime,” she said.

Zogby added that Tehran’s decision to support Syrian President Bashar al-Assad has been extremely destructive to the country’s image in the region, as only residents of Iraq and Lebanon—two of Syria’s three Arab neighbors—view Iran’s role in Syria positively. “Syria is…the nail in the coffin of Iran’s favorable rating across the region,” he opined.

Second, Zogby said, the poll reveals a growing sectarian divide in the Middle East. Citing data from Sunni-majority Saudi Arabia, he noted that while 85 percent of all Saudis held a positive view of Iran in 2008, fewer than 20 percent now hold this view. This dramatic decrease in popularity is fueled by sectarian tensions, Zogby argued: while 90 percent of Saudi Shi’i view Iran favorably, almost none of the country’s Sunnis have a favorable view of Iran.

Lebanon is the only country whose citizens—regardless of religion or sect—consistently express favorable views of Iran, Zogby pointed out, noting that support for Iran seems to be the only issue that unites highly sectarian Lebanon. Zogby attributed this support to the fact that Iran was the only country that stood up against Israel’s 2006 onslaught against Lebanon.

Al Arabiya’s Washington, DC bureau chief, Hisham Melhem, questioned the accuracy of the results from Lebanon. “There is no way under the sun that 84 percent of the Lebanese would have a favorable view of Iran,” he stated. Indeed, Melhem noted, a May 2012 Pew Research poll found that 61 percent of Lebanese have an unfavorable view of Iran.

The landscape is fast changing as we can see from 2006 to 2011 according to zogby. And above zogbys reliability questioned again......
 
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So, who cares. And they don't really do they given religion is also a personal thing.

Religion, particularly with regard to the status of the Ahmadiyya in Pakistan is not a personal thing, it is a state controlled position. Hence why he left.

Yes and you stated you agreed to disagree, but here you are again when not replying to your last post essentially agreed to your terms....

You carried on, not me. I replied to your continued position which generally is made up of ignoring the nuances of the argument in favour of broad positions that are not representative of the regions under conflict.

Anyhow the poll I supplied which can be dated back many years is pretty conclusive. The BBC and many other mainstream sites have used them as sources so am happy with their results.

And they aren't the only poll either.

And it wouldnt be the first time Zogby polls have been questioned in the region.

It wouldn't be the first time Pew are questioned either. In Fact your source, which you fail to actually supply, even state that Zogby have an established credibility in the US. And of course it wouldn't be the first time that a poll is questioned, as they all are, no matter who conducts them.

For example, a few years before Zogby conducted a similar, albeit smaller poll which showed overwhelming support for Arab-Iranian relations...this was disputed by several experts on Middle Eastern politics as they stated, like Xordium and myself, that it was too optimistic about Sunni/Shia sentiment saying that such tensions are glossed over....again with this new one which shows a dramatic fall in that optimism, you have others questioning it...just as they question the Pew polls.

http://www.ipsnews.net/2013/03/poll-finds-mounting-hostility-among-arabs-towards-iran/

Anyway, whatever issues other Zogby polls may have (or pew ones) this one has been used by several academic institutes and the AAI which underwrites the annual poll is accredited and designated as the primary census information centre (on Arab-Americans) by the United States Census Bureau. Zogby was also honoured by the CUNY receiving its Fulbright award for Global Understanding recently.
 
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On the whole I don't think most Pakistanis hate Iranians, mostly its feelings of indifference and a slight respect for standing up to the USA. There is actual hatred for Arabs though.

Have noticed some Persians displaying similar views as xordium though not to his extreme. The contempt slightly shows but they are mostly friendly people and I think the Arab rivalry is more prominent then the Pakistani thing.

The whole sunni shia issue plays a major role in this.
Recently the shia sunni rivalry gone to new heights. I despair of this salafi scourge and the shia extremists.
 
Religion, particularly with regard to the status of the Ahmadiyya in Pakistan is not a personal thing, it is a state controlled position. Hence why he left.

Who cares, you seem to think I made the statement, you do realise I was quoting someone on a broader point. trust you to argue semantics.
You carried on, not me. I replied to your continued position which generally is made up of ignoring the nuances of the argument in favour of broad positions that are not representative of the regions under conflict.

Not with you, B) my position seems to be the one based on evidence and reality rather that ones based on personal opinions and "trust me mate"

It wouldn't be the first time Pew are questioned either. In Fact your source, which you fail to actually supply, even state that Zogby have an established credibility in the US. And of course it wouldn't be the first time that a poll is questioned, as they all are, no matter who conducts them.

Unfortunately its the same line of poll on favourable views towards Iran. The pole was questioned. mine hasn't been.

For example, a few years before Zogby conducted a similar, albeit smaller poll which showed overwhelming support for Arab-Iranian relations...this was disputed by several experts on Middle Eastern politics as they stated, like Xordium and myself, that it was too optimistic about Sunni/Shia sentiment saying that such tensions are glossed over....again with this new one which shows a dramatic fall in that optimism, you have others questioning it...just as they question the Pew polls.

So they have a history of dodgy polls on this particular matter....


Anyway, whatever issues other Zogby polls may have (or pew ones) this one has been used by several academic institutes and the AAI which underwrites the annual poll is accredited and designated as the primary census information centre (on Arab-Americans) by the United States Census Bureau. Zogby was also honoured by the CUNY receiving its Fulbright award for Global Understanding recently.

The PEW one doesn't, only the Zogby one.

and

At best your poll is simply superseded by a newer one since zogby's is 4 year old and PEWs in upto date with out even bringing in the fact of questional reliability of the poll and how representative it truly was or wasn't. Also bear in mind, from zogby himself

First, the poll showed declining support for Iran throughout the Arab world. In 2006, Zogby noted, 80 percent of Arabs held a positive view of Iran. “Since then, there has been a steady drop,” he said, pointing out that Iran is now viewed negatively in 14 of the 20 countries polled. Yemen, Lebanon, Iraq, Algeria and Libya are the only countries where Iran is viewed favorably, Zogby said, while Kuwait is evenly split.

In the opinion of Haleh Esfandiari, director of the Wilson Center’s Middle East program, the Iranian regime’s harsh response to the 2009 Green Movement severely damaged the country’s reputation in the region. “I think suddenly the Arab street was faced with the brutality of the Iranian regime,” she said.

Zogby added that Tehran’s decision to support Syrian President Bashar al-Assad has been extremely destructive to the country’s image in the region, as only residents of Iraq and Lebanon—two of Syria’s three Arab neighbors—view Iran’s role in Syria positively. “Syria is…the nail in the coffin of Iran’s favorable rating across the region,” he opined.

Second, Zogby said, the poll reveals a growing sectarian divide in the Middle East. Citing data from Sunni-majority Saudi Arabia, he noted that while 85 percent of all Saudis held a positive view of Iran in 2008, fewer than 20 percent now hold this view. This dramatic decrease in popularity is fueled by sectarian tensions, Zogby argued: while 90 percent of Saudi Shi’i view Iran favorably, almost none of the country’s Sunnis have a favorable view of Iran.

Lebanon is the only country whose citizens—regardless of religion or sect—consistently express favorable views of Iran, Zogby pointed out, noting that support for Iran seems to be the only issue that unites highly sectarian Lebanon. Zogby attributed this support to the fact that Iran was the only country that stood up against Israel’s 2006 onslaught against Lebanon.

Al Arabiya’s Washington, DC bureau chief, Hisham Melhem, questioned the accuracy of the results from Lebanon. “There is no way under the sun that 84 percent of the Lebanese would have a favorable view of Iran,” he stated. Indeed, Melhem noted, a May 2012 Pew Research poll found that 61 percent of Lebanese have an unfavorable view of Iran.

The landscape is fast changing as we can see from 2006 to 2011 according to zogby. And above zogbys reliability questioned again......
 
The landscape is fast changing as we can see from 2006 to 2011 according to zogby. And above zogbys reliability questioned again......

Like I said, you have unintentionally undermined your own argument here, as the 2012 poll I used supports many of the positions of Haleh Esfandiari, director of the Wilson Center’s Middle East program, whilst still disagreeing with DC bureau chief, Hisham Melhem and Prof Marc Lynch, interestingly Lebanon is largely influenced by Hezbollah, a traditionally held supporter of Iran and vice versa...either you support these people's opinions as authoritative or you don't, which is it?

Just because some of the results of a large poll do not agree with opinions of everyone, Dora t mean they are discredited.

In any case a poll is a poll, you can take the stats and show whatever you want. Essentially however the poll is important when discussing Pakistan and Iran as it shows a breakdown by demographic which the Pew polls do not, so it's illustrative of the regional sectarianism to which Xordium is referring, and this is supported in the literature you have supplied.
 
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Like I said, you have unintentionally undermined your own argument here, as the 2012 poll I used supports the positions of Haleh Esfandiari, director of the Wilson Center’s Middle East program, DC bureau chief, Hisham Melhem and Prof Marc Lynch...either you support these people's opinions as authoritative or you don't, which is it?

yea I don't think I have. Anyhow....


To help out you a little bit

Out of the 23 countries rating Iran
in 2014, all lean negative except
the Muslim countries Pakistan

and Indonesia, and Ghana who is
divided.

In Asia, perceptions of Iran’s influence greatly vary. Neighbouring Pakistan, with 51 per cent
of positive views
—a similar proportion to last year’s—is the country with the most favourable
view of Iran. It is followed by Indonesia where positive ratings have gone up six points to
reach 40 per cent, resulting in a shift in the opinion from being divided in 2013 (34% positive
vs 36% negative) to leaning somewhat positively this year (40% positive vs 35% negative).
Negative opinions of Iran in Pakistan and Indonesia are also the lowest of the surveyed
countries, with respectively 21 and 35 per cent.

http://downloads.bbc.co.uk/mediacentre/country-rating-poll.pdf

Page 27 - 51% favourable - 21% unfavourable - 28% neutral

Not really much to say given they are in line with PEWs results....research conducted by gallup

Lets see where you move your goals posts next.
 
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y

Lets see where you move your goals posts next.

I haven't moved anything...my position has been steadfast...you simply cannot countenance anything that you deem anti-Pakistani...such as the oppression of its own Muslims or the underlying sectarianism between Shia and Sunni.

You're latest poll also only had a small sample size in Pakistan, at less than 10% of the Zogby poll, and the Zogby poll included demographic information so that's why I used it as it shows how the differing regional, cultural and social attitudes impact the data (remember we are talking about a specific region, rather than intergovernmental cooperation) which you cannot see in either of the polls you used which are both global (therefore far broader) and smaller (therefore less representative when looking at a specific position).

Your answer was simply to discredit the AAI, which is an accepted and credible think tank on Arab affairs.

Even the Pew Institute shows a marked decline in favourable relations between Iran and Pakistan, with its figures showing a marked 13 point drop in just one year...The pew institute even records that the high favourable ratings are not consistent with Pakistan's attitudes to its Shiite minorities or the attitudes of regional sectarianism, like we find along the Iran-Pakistan border. in its press release, it recognises that its support is largely based on mutual dislike of the United States, rather than mutual friendship of each other..which is echoed throughout the Cold War when it's mutual enemy was Soviet Russia. They are friends by necessity only..its a veneer as Xordium so ably demonstrated.

The only country where Iran's favorability rating scores above 50 percent is Pakistan, with 76 percent giving the rogue state a positive review. That's a tad ironic given Pakistan's treatment of its Shiite minority, a sect with which Iran is closely identified. Pakistani Shiites have been so repeatedly and brutally targeted by terrorist groups that the government's failure to protect them "amounts to complicity," according to Human Rights Watch. Perhaps Pakistanis, though, have some sympathy for a country with potential nuclear ambitions and a love of shooting down U.S. drones.

The reasons why Pakistanis hold positive views of Iran are easy to discern. Despite its sometimes abhorrent treatment of its own Shi’ites, most Pakistanis have personally experienced living under U.S. sanctions because of their political leaders nuclear program. In fact, Pakistanis overwhelmingly view the United States negatively, and also have first-hand experience with U.S. military action against their country. Furthermore, many Pakistanis number one priority is greater access to electricity, and therefore likely support Iran’s dedication to building a natural gas pipeline through their country.

Ironically, that very pipeline has become on of the areas of tension between the two countries, again showing the cracks in this carefully constructed veneer.
 
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I haven't moved anything...my position has been steadfast...you simply cannot countenance anything that you king deem anti-Pakistani...such as the oppression of its own Muslims or the underlying sectarianism between Shia and Sunni.

Your positions and arguments seem to change every post, just like this one now :D And no I do recognise Pakistans oppression of its own citizens and have commented on Sunni / Shia relations in this very thread. :confused:

I simply challenged a post stating Pakistan and Iran are traditional foes backed up with evidence and personal experiance. The post wasn't even made by you but you jumped in, then your agreed to disagree and made your way back in.

Xordiam stated Iranians think Pakistanis are dirty and illiterate zealots, is this a view you share?. I suspected from the beginning perhaps it was his own personal prejudice running into his statement about traditional foes given some of his past statements on immigration from Pakistan or Muslim countries, which should be cut off or how Pakistanis are a burden on the NHS etc etc

Your answer was simply to discredit the AAI, which is an accepted and credible think tank on Arab affairs.

I didn't, others did and so did more representative polls. In fact another one performed by another group supported by initial poll. Its not my fault the poll you provided has been questioned by numerous people and conflicts with the historical trends of the region.

Even the Pew Institute shows a marked decline in favourable relations between Iran and Pakistan, with its figures showing a marked 13 point drop in just one year...The pew institute even records that the high favourable ratings are not consistent with Pakistan's attitudes to its Shiite minorities or the attitudes of regional sectarianism, like we find along the Iran-Pakistan border. in its press release, it recognises that its support is largely based on mutual dislike of the United States, rather than mutual friendship of each other..which is echoed throughout the Cold War when it's mutual enemy was Soviet Russia. They are friends by necessity only..its a veneer as Xordium so ably demonstrated.

erm Pew didn't say that, a Washington post writer said that.... so lying now as well. You've lifted what a Washington post writer stated and stated outright PEW made the comments.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs...stan-overwhelmingly-disliked-everywhere-else/

Not to mention the decline is something I have stated over many time, your just repeating what ive already said and said in my last reply. Show me where on the polls by PEW or comments by PEW it states that?
 
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