Final salary payment before leaving - nightmare pls help

[Dj_Jestar]

two sides to this one - is it reasonable to take all the training costs back in one go and leave someone with nothing? No it's not

However - is it reasonable to expect someone who is leaving employment to not think about/question what happens when they leave and how the repayment is made - no

It's a hard one all round - without proper legal advice/representation - I think you'll have a job getting any other options from you previous employer.

There really isn't two sides to it. OP knew that they would settle all outstanding debt upon end of employment, and they did exactly that.

His employment has finished with them. The only means they have of recuperating the expense is by salary deduction and this was OP's final payment, thus all of the debt was recuperated.

 

[McGraw]

Enough advice/comment has been given. I don't want to add salt to wounds but may I in the most respectful way suggest going forward you work towards at least 6 months salary as savings in a bank account. Eat home made ham sandwiches and stop all luxury item spending till you do it. Use Money Saving Expert for ideas to reduce expenditure and live within means. No offense but your cash flow is poor because of a lack of budgeting. Read a book called The Millionaire Next Door.

This comment is hilarious.

Even if he cut his spending in half it would take him a year. Two (plus?) people living on his salary.

How do you know they don't already live close to the edge due to a mortgage, car, baby etc?

 

[porushinobu]

I dunno, some people might suggest that not having any savings is pretty dumb... If someone can't go a month without income they perhaps need to learn to budget.

As for the OP, I'm not seeing a huge issue, OP owed company money, company owes him money for wages... logical thing would be to pay him the net amount. Why would they extend a line of credit to someone who is leaving?

its not always about budgeting, people like me on am measly £900 pcm wage can barely put away £100 on a good month because outgoings are close to the amount you earn. so im sorry for what im about to do because im sick of people complaining that its all about budgeting.

it annoys me no end. please consider ALL possible incomes, living conditions and possible salaries before making similar statements.

 

[coolsurfer]

This comment is hilarious.

Even if he cut his spending in half it would take him a year. Two (plus?) people living on his salary.

How do you know they don't already live close to the edge due to a mortgage, car, baby etc?

I'm glad you're entertained. Lets take the OP out of the equation for a second and speak generally. People just don't plan their life enough. Its the consumption driven society we have turned into. We want things now and will pay tomorrow instead of saving up then buying. I am making decisions now so that I reap the benefits in the future. I could get into great detail but I fear it will alienate. To give an example, why would you want to leave your parent's house "to get your own space" by renting? Why not stay with your parents, saving a massive deposit then have a small mortgage? The reason: life style choices, social norms and consumption lifestyle. It's all within ones own hands. You make your choices and the decisions affect you in the later years. I appreciate not everyone has these luxuries but then one should control what they can and not dismiss wise thoughts. It seems crazy to me that people have children and then can't afford. Why didn't you save up before hand? Why have the holidays, iphones and what not? One has a whole 9 months of saving up before hand and then the child comes and they're skint. You know a child will one day go to uni. You know they will once day need driving lessons. Think then plan years ahead! If you do the same thing again and again then expect a different result then you're mad! People don't want to hear this kind of thing then come up with all kinds of excuses because it just isn't fashionable or popular to think differently. THINK! SACRIFICE! PLAN! STRATEGISE! No one not the government, nor friends or family should be relied upon. Only rely on yourself and make good decisions. Always take the blame oneself for poor decisions (God know's I've made a ton). Then you will be truly in control of your destiny. One's fate is in ones own hands. Don't follow the herd. Lead the herd or be contrarian.

 

[ZXSpectrum]

There really isn't two sides to it. OP knew that they would settle all outstanding debt upon end of employment, and they did exactly that.

His employment has finished with them. The only means they have of recuperating the expense is by salary deduction and this was OP's final payment, thus all of the debt was recuperated.

No you are right there isn't two sides. From what the OP has outlined, there should be no outstanding debt FULL STOP. The company have been negligent and not met the required level of support the employee required. The result being that the OP could not have completed his course meaning this course being a complete waste of time and money. This alone should be grounds for the debt to be written off by the company.

Sorry for saying this OP, and I understand its your choice, but the company is in the wrong here and you should be using any available resource to fight this and get your money back otherwise someone else will be placed in the same underhanded practices.

This is of course based on the fact that the OP is being truthful and not leaving anything out regarding the reasoning behind him failing his course.

 

[Dj_Jestar]

You've mis-read. OP was sent on a training course that cost money. The failed NVQ is not that training course.

Either way, OP signed up for it and it will have been out-laid in full. OP has no leg to stand on. Debt settled, as documented it would be in his employment contract.

 

[scotty365]

No you are right there isn't two sides. From what the OP has outlined, there should be no outstanding debt FULL STOP. The company have been negligent and not met the required level of support the employee required. The result being that the OP could not have completed his course meaning this course being a complete waste of time and money. This alone should be grounds for the debt to be written off by the company.

Sorry for saying this OP, and I understand its your choice, but the company is in the wrong here and you should be using any available resource to fight this and get your money back otherwise someone else will be placed in the same underhanded practices.

This is of course based on the fact that the OP is being truthful and not leaving anything out regarding the reasoning behind him failing his course.

As explained before I did 2 city and guilds courses and a NVQ - I passed the first and the second is on going - I will pass it although it's worthless without the NVQ. The NVQ required work that was not given the electrical manager actively ignored my requests for work over and over I approached my manager and he understood but said he can't force him - I went to director level and suddenly material turned up and by 3 month point i'd done my first job... I should have done dozens by then, a further 2 months on and I'm still waiting for work at this point I am out of time really - there is 3 months left to do 9 months of work doable but not when we are in the middle of a massive company move into a new building - I can't complete it realistically and there is still the issue of deliberate withholding of work. The company admitted that they cannot force him to do it and they should have not allowed this to go ahead without his approval (he gave the right vibes but no verbal commitment). So I decide to look elsewhere and within a short time another company says they will finish the NVQ job and pay more money.

 

[ZXSpectrum]

You've mis-read. OP was sent on a training course that cost money. The failed NVQ is not that training course.

Either way, OP signed up for it and it will have been out-laid in full. OP has no leg to stand on. Debt settled, as documented it would be in his employment contract.

No I do not believe I have misread it. I would have thought that it would be the same thing if a company have paid for a Forklift drivers course and one of the requirements of that course is that for 1 day a week the person on the course had to drive the forklift under supervision but the company could not spare that supervisor and the person failed the course/qualification through no fault of their own?

 

[ZXSpectrum]

As explained before I did 2 city and guilds courses and a NVQ - I passed the first and the second is on going - I will pass it although it's worthless without the NVQ. The NVQ required work that was not given the electrical manager actively ignored my requests for work over and over I approached my manager and he understood but said he can't force him - I went to director level and suddenly material turned up and by 3 month point i'd done my first job... I should have done dozens by then, a further 2 months on and I'm still waiting for work at this point I am out of time really - there is 3 months left to do 9 months of work doable but not when we are in the middle of a massive company move into a new building - I can't complete it realistically and there is still the issue of deliberate withholding of work. The company admitted that they cannot force him to do it and they should have not allowed this to go ahead without his approval (he gave the right vibes but no verbal commitment). So I decide to look elsewhere and within a short time another company says they will finish the NVQ job and pay more money.

If that is the case then the company has purposefully blocked you from completing your training/NVQ so why should you be held liable for repayment???

 

[Dj_Jestar]

Because you don't pay for NVQs

NVQs are vocational. I.e. the job is the NVQ and you are assessed on your competency at the job with set criteria.

 

[scotty365]

If that is the case then the company has purposefully blocked you from completing your training/NVQ so why should you be held liable for repayment???

I don't mind pay back for the 2 city and guilds courses ~£2000 I object to the NVQ ~£1000 because it's not my fault. Overall the objective was failed and the city and guild courses are useless without the NVQ I'm still not qualified and I can't get the pay rise and can't advance my career to manage the entire building because I can't legally work on electrical equipment (I do work on electrical equipment everyday but you get the point) Because of how my career path was drawn up it fell apart once the NVQ approached the point of failure.

I wasn't going to stop at this point and do the job for same salary I had to move on or at least they would have to recommit to finish the job but they didn't and I had to find an alternate path.

 

[skyripper]

EDIT: I can see the answer above So if its not the NVQ, which training courses are you being billed for, and Can they provide all the documentation, invoices etc. to go with this training which you are paying for?

Basically, if you're paying for it, make sure there is not a single training manual, guide, pamphlet or other piece of "Your Property" left seeing as they're not the ones paying for it.

Because you know the next schmuck who gets that job will be handed your training guide and be told to get on with it.

 

[Vince]

This thread is a good reminder for me to dig my contract out before booking myself on HP's Worksite System Engineer course. I have no idea if I signed anything when I did Prince 2 Practitioner a few years back either but that's probably lapsed now anyway, I just can't remember. I should really know better as the last company I worked for took 3k from me when I left, they also made it impossible for me to work with one of their clients that offered me a role.

Like the op I wasn't in a position to easily stomach a 3k hit and it hurt, I loaded up credit cards and overdrafts to get through until my first pay at the new place and my mrs also chipped in where possible. At the end of the day you sound like you are moving on up anyway so take it as a lesson, pay your dues and use the support of family if you cant extend some line of credit. When you move to your new place pay it all back and get on with life.

 

[scotty365]

Because you don't pay for NVQs

NVQs are vocational. I.e. the job is the NVQ and you are assessed on your competency at the job with set criteria.

You pay for NVQ because you have to be assessed by a assessing body and they don't do it for free - they don't do much but you still can't do it any other way and it cost ~£1000

 

[scotty365]

This thread is a good reminder for me to dig my contract out before booking myself on HP's Worksite System Engineer course. I have no idea if I signed anything when I did Prince 2 Practitioner a few years back either but that's probably lapsed now anyway, I just can't remember. I should really know better as the last company I worked for took 3k from me when I left, they also made it impossible for me to work with one of their clients that offered me a role.

Like the op I wasn't in a position to easily stomach a 3k hit and it hurt, I loaded up credit cards and overdrafts to get through until my first pay at the new place and my mrs also chipped in where possible. At the end of the day you sound like you are moving on up anyway so take it as a lesson, pay your dues and use the support of family if you cant extend some line of credit. When you move to your new place pay it all back and get on with life.

Exactly this.

 

[Dj_Jestar]

No, you don't. You are getting an apprentice wage (or even working voluntarily) because the employer is paying (and sibsidised by the government for doing so) for the NVQ assessment. If they've charged you for it, then that is a case for a tribunal, yes. The other training courses are not.

 

[Squink]

I could have done them a wrong un and got away with all my money but I did things the honest way and I'm being hammered for it.

You have my sympathy for what's happened and I hope something is sorted out for you. However learn this lesson that when it comes to money it's ALWAYS better in your pocket than theirs. If you're an honest person you'll pay back what you owe, but you can never guarantee anyone else will do the same.

 

[scotty365]

EDIT: I can see the answer above So if its not the NVQ, which training courses are you being billed for, and Can they provide all the documentation, invoices etc. to go with this training which you are paying for?

Basically, if you're paying for it, make sure there is not a single training manual, guide, pamphlet or other piece of "Your Property" left seeing as they're not the ones paying for it.

Because you know the next schmuck who gets that job will be handed your training guide and be told to get on with it.

The most important manual they need is my little books that I write all the stuff down in - they are a gold mine and they are coming with me because they are my property. I don't have a problem showing them how to do stuff but as I said before the 2 people they have took on don't write anything down and they arent going to remember any of it - it's too complicated to remember.

 

[scotty365]

No, you don't. You are getting an apprentice wage (or even working voluntarily) because the employer is paying (and sibsidised by the government for doing so) for the NVQ assessment. If they've charged you for it, then that is a case for a tribunal, yes. The other training courses are not.

Im not an apprentice I can assure you and don't get an apprentice wage. I'm doing night school and the company paid ~£3000. There is no government payment for people doing it my way but there are for the young lads that are doing actual apprenticeships.

 

[Dj_Jestar]

Fine, in that case I have mis-read. However, this now means that the NVQ/night school/whatever training is all treated as I already explained. This will have been in your contract.