Cancelled flights - Regular Occurrence?

Amp34

Amp34

Amp34

Caporegime
Joined
25 Jul 2005
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Canada
In the last 15 months I've done three major long haul trips and on every long haul flight I've had at least one flight cancelled, on two I've had both one out and one return cancelled.

All the cancellations have been more than a week before (today's one is two weeks before schedule departure, another was a month before a Christmas departure and the last was a couple of months) and all were eventually rearranged to a day-2 days later, with chaos to our trips at our expense and obviously no chance of any compensation (from airline or travel insurance)...

Am I just really unlucky or are long haul flight cancellations that regular occurrences? There seems to be a major black hole in consumer rights either way for things like this.
 
Multiple airlines. Qatar, BA/Quantas and most recently Royal Air Marroc. I know a few of the routes aren't exactly the most plied (Philippines (Manilla), Gabon, Australia (Darwin)) but having your flight cancelled and being put on a flight the next day at exactly the same time (if they have space, which they didn't over Christmas obviously) just smacks of them thinking they won't fill the plane and cancelling, they don't seem to care that it'll **** up someone's trip plans...

True I guess, more regular (such as transatlantic) flights may not be cancelled as much as I guess they can fill the planes up?
 
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Had one cancelled last week. Though the plane was pouring smoke out of the engine so...meh.
Klm seem quite bad though.
 
Is it 2 weeks or just under 2 weeks? This is important.

EU261 Flight cancellations:

Cancellation
If a flight is cancelled, passengers are automatically entitled to their choice of (a.) re-routing to the same destination at the earliest opportunity (under comparable conditions); (b.) later rerouting, at the passenger's convenience, to the same destination under comparable conditions (subject to seat availability); or (c.) a refund of the ticket as well as a return flight to the point of first departure, when relevant. Any ticket refund is the price paid for the flight(s) not used, plus the cost of flights already flown in cases where the cancellation has made those flights of no purpose. Where applicable, passengers are also entitled to refreshments, communication and accommodation as described below. Where re-routing is to another airport serving the same destination, the airline must pay for onward transport to the original airport or to a close-by destination agreed with the passenger. These choices, and the entitlement to refreshments, etc., apply to all cancellations, regardless of whether the circumstances are extraordinary or not.

It is unclear whether "the earliest opportunity" requires airlines to endorse a ticket onto another carrier.

The airline is also required to pay cash compensation as described below, unless one of the following conditions applies:

the airline notifies the passengers at least two weeks prior to departure
the airline notifies the passengers between one and two weeks prior to departure, and re-routes passengers so that they can:
depart no more than two hours earlier than scheduled, and
arrive no more than four hours later than scheduled
the airline notifies the passengers less than one week prior to departure, and re-routes passengers so that they can:
depart no more than one hour earlier than scheduled, and
arrive no more than two hours later than scheduled
the cancellation was caused by extraordinary circumstances that could not have been avoided by any reasonable measure.
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Dis86 said:
Had one cancelled last week. Though the plane was pouring smoke out of the engine so...meh.
Klm seem quite bad though.
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I don't think anyone would have issues with that type of cancellation. Must have been pretty hairy though? :p

Aedus, it's less than two weeks from the flight out, but it's 4 weeks from the affected flight, which is one of the flights back so I don't think that covers it unfortunately (if it does then let me know, it'll be a useful bargaining point)... The outbound flight was cancelled last weekend... ;)
 
Unfortunately not then, you'd only be able to claim back the entire ticket cost via a refund, no compensation. You can always try the goodwill gesture approach if you'll be out of pocket, though legally they're not entitled to give you anything.

EU261 covers both flight cancellations and delays, so if they cancel a flight within 2 weeks of departure of that sector or if you take a flight which arrives at its destination 3 hours late, you can get compensation money.
 
Recently had some nonsense with a flight back fom New York. First website I googled suggested going direct to the airline.

The flights were booked through BA but we were scheduled to fly with American Airlines. I sent the complaint to BA, they took a week a respond and then said they had passed it onto American Airlines and have heard nothing since.

Do they intentionally drag their heals as there does not seem to be a reference number or a way to check the status of the complaint.

Should I bypass the airline and push for the compensation from the EU/CAA/courts etc?
 
mike.grayizzle said:
Recently had some nonsense with a flight back fom New York. First website I googled suggested going direct to the airline.

The flights were booked through BA but we were scheduled to fly with American Airlines. I sent the complaint to BA, they took a week a respond and then said they had passed it onto American Airlines and have heard nothing since.

Do they intentionally drag their heals as there does not seem to be a reference number or a way to check the status of the complaint.

Should I bypass the airline and push for the compensation from the EU/CAA/courts etc?
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EU261 is an EU regulation, it does not cover non-EU carriers flying in to the EU, but it does cover any carrier departing from the EU. Since AA are non-EU and it sounds like it was inbound into the EU there will be nothing you can do for claiming.

Were the flights always with AA or were they originally with BA and they switched to AA? Because the fault lies with the original operator, so if BA were delayed and knew they were going to be delayed, so leased an aircraft from AA to operate the flight, BA are still responsible, and because they're an EU airline you'll be able to claim.
 
areksnumbr1sxylady said:
BA codeshares with AA and Iberia... You have to watch who you book with... You essentially book AA flight on ba.co.uk/
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this, they are part of the one world alliance and share flights

http://www.britishairways.com/en-gb/information/partners-and-alliances/oneworld

full listing of all one world alliance partners that share flights / codes. You can book flights for all those carriers directly off the BA site. When you pull the flight listings for a destination it then shows you which carrier it is. YOu just need to keep your eyes peeled when you select the flights.

e.g look at flights to JFK, the listing shows both BA and AA flights.
 
This has certain benefits, like booking flights in USA with Avios.

15 000 points + £7 for return from ORD to DFW...

Keeping in mind that normal fees went up to like 400$ due to spring break.

Yes please!
 
I currently have a claim against Aer Lingus going through the courts with a solicitors. They don't make it easy to claim compensation but you are entitled to it in a variety of circumstances.
 
Aedus said:
Unfortunately not then, you'd only be able to claim back the entire ticket cost via a refund, no compensation. You can always try the goodwill gesture approach if you'll be out of pocket, though legally they're not entitled to give you anything.

EU261 covers both flight cancellations and delays, so if they cancel a flight within 2 weeks of departure of that sector or if you take a flight which arrives at its destination 3 hours late, you can get compensation money.
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Yep, that was my thinking. I looked into this a lot last year and drew a blank there as well. It's why I mentioned it being a black hole in consumer rights. You can book a flight with a reputable airline to a reasonable location, then after confirmation and eticket issue book another internal flight/trip/hotel for the next day* and still not get there on time because the airline cancelled. So you're out of pocket because the airline can't provide the service it agreed, even though it obviously had plenty of time to sort it out.

That's ignoring the fact you may have paid a premium for the flight you booked because it was at the right time, then get stuffed with a cheaper flight at a different time and no refund of the difference. And booking with them almost solely because they offered the most convenient time, possibly at another premium.

*As an example we ended up getting to Manilla more than 24hours late, to a different airport outside the city. That meant we had to rearrange a flight that was booked for 26hours after we were due to land. That pushed our trip back an entire day and left us on the back foot for the rest of the week. Luckily Filipino airlines are much more relaxed about giving refunds and rebooking so we were only out of pocket by £100 or so (not including the almost certain difference in air fare, which could be in the region of hundreds). I wouldn't like to have to calculate the cost of the flights involved a european airline like Ryanair... :p
 
Adam said:
I currently have a claim against Aer Lingus going through the courts with a solicitors. They don't make it easy to claim compensation but you are entitled to it in a variety of circumstances.
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Is that within the two week window or more than two weeks?
 
Amp34 said:
Am I just really unlucky or are long haul flight cancellations that regular occurrences?
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I don't think it's either of these - I think it's just more of a hazard when you book more obscure routings, routes with connecting legs, routes on airlines using equipment more prone to technical issues that delay or cancel the flight or routes where there is only one daily service meaning that an issue has a huge knock-on effect.

I suspect if your long haul travel had you mostly flying between say LHR and DXB for example you'd have suffered almost no issues.
 
While I agree, flying RAM to Gabon is an obscure route, I wouldn't say flying Qatar to an Airport with over 30 million passengers a year particularly obscure, nor flying BA to Oz. :p
A flight from one hub airport to another hub airport isn't quite the same though, it'd be the equivalent of flying to the Seychelles, Mauritius, Kenya, Thailand or many of the other destinations I'd argue, which is why I was wondering if others that didn't fly hub to hub or transatlantic had the same issues.

I agree to an extent though, as I said earlier there almost certainly is some of that. It doesn't however absolve the issue that airlines can cancel flights on a whim and passengers have no right to any recompense for out of pocket expenses.

If you book a flight 3 months in advance you don't normally book all the bits (such as internal flights, hotel, tours, hire car) that go with it less than 2 weeks before flying do you? :p
 
Amp34 said:
While I agree, flying RAM to Gabon is an obscure route, I wouldn't say flying Qatar to an Airport with over 30 million passengers a year particularly obscure, nor flying BA to Oz. :p
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BA falls into the 'old equipment' bit :D

I agree to an extent though, as I said earlier there almost certainly is some of that. It doesn't however absolve the issue that airlines can cancel flights on a whim and passengers have no right to any recompense for out of pocket expenses.

If you book a flight 3 months in advance you don't normally book all the bits (such as internal flights, hotel, tours, hire car) that go with it less than 2 weeks before flying do you? :p
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I quite agree - it's ridiculous and the same level of convenience is not afford to the passenger if his/her plans change on a non refundable ticket. It can actually be even worse - some airlines only consider a schedule change sufficient to trigger refunds if it moves by 5 hours, which is ridiculous if like most people you have onward arrangements made.

I try to mitigate the effect of this sort of thing by making sure that I don't have anything else scheduled immediately before or after a long haul flight and that I have a day after arrival where the itinerary is reasonably flexible allowing say a 24 hour late arrival to not destroy the rest of the trip. You shouldn't need to do any of this, but I guess thats how things are..
 
To answer your original question, it seems you're very unlucky.

I have flown several times haul to Australia and short haul to various European destinations and not had a single cancellation.
 
Aedus said:
EU261 is an EU regulation, it does not cover non-EU carriers flying in to the EU, but it does cover any carrier departing from the EU. Since AA are non-EU and it sounds like it was inbound into the EU there will be nothing you can do for claiming.

Were the flights always with AA or were they originally with BA and they switched to AA? Because the fault lies with the original operator, so if BA were delayed and knew they were going to be delayed, so leased an aircraft from AA to operate the flight, BA are still responsible, and because they're an EU airline you'll be able to claim.
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Flights were booked through the BA website but the London to New York was AA. The return flight was also AA but this was cancelled and we were ultimately rebooked onto a BA flight.

In an attempt to answer your question it seems we went the other way, AA cancelled the flight and rebooked us with BA so it seems AA are the ones at fault but you are suggesting I might have a challenge with the EU regulation.

How does their customer service policy work in light of this......are they concerned with losing my future business? And if they are what are they likely to offer? Free return flights or am I kidding myself?
 
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