Airbus A320 Crashes in Alps

That's the thing about air crashes... Its the 8 or so minutes it takes before hitting the ground.. How horrifying it must be for all those poor souls.

RIP to all the poor people and especially the children onboard. Very sad.
 
That's the thing about air crashes... Its the 8 or so minutes it takes before hitting the ground.. How horrifying it must be for all those poor souls.

RIP to all the poor people and especially the children onboard. Very sad.

I couldn't or wouldn't want to even comprehend it, just awful :(
 
From other websites the major theory I have read is decompression of the aircraft (everyone blacks out) and then the controlled descent of the aircraft over 8 mins (near straight line), running into terrain. In a way this would be best case scenario as I hope it would mean no one would have known what was going on.
 
First pictures of wreckage appearing on Twitter. Plane is absolutely obliterated. :(

A lot of people on twitter are replying to the pictures with 'where is the wreckage/ where is the plane?'

You're looking at it. How can people not get their head round the fact that not much is left after a +400mph crash.
 
The daily mail (urgh) had some pictures of a helicopter hovering over an area of smoke, that looks like some sort of impact site with small chunks of debris, all over.

Aside from solid lumps of titanium/bits of engine, I wouldn't expect there to be much left at all other than dust, I wonder if the flight recorders survived.
 
Is it normal for a flight from Barcelona to Dusseldorf to take that route over the Alps? Looking on a map, the straight line between the two cities doesn't intersect with the Alps region at all.

The answer is a bit of both:

A straight line on a map isn't a straight line in reality.

Planes never fly in a straight line because it is a longer journey, and flight paths are both regulated and calculated to take advantage of winds.

I started trying to explain it further but this link does a much better job!

http://www.progonos.com/furuti/MapProj/Normal/CartProp/Geodesic/geodesic.html

Straight lines (great circles) on Mercator projections (the one you're probably thinking of) come out as curved:

http://demonstrations.wolfram.com/GreatCirclesOnMercatorsChart/

This is because a "straight line" on a Mercator map is a journey of constant bearing (e.g. on your compass) to assist sailors.

See this for more http://www.progonos.com/furuti/MapProj/Normal/CartProp/Rhumb/rhumb.html
 
From other websites the major theory I have read is decompression of the aircraft (everyone blacks out) and then the controlled descent of the aircraft over 8 mins (near straight line), running into terrain. In a way this would be best case scenario as I hope it would mean no one would have known what was going on.

I haven't been looking in to the theories of this crash, they know where the wreckage is so I see no real need for speculation. However how does that work? Isn't the purpose of oxygen supplies to combat decompression? I know passengers don't get that long but the pilots do, certaintly long enough for an emergency decent to a safe altitude. Unless the theory is that the pilots performed an emergency decent and simply didn't, or for some reason couldn't, level out at the bottom of the decent.
 
Sat on an A320 now bound for Germany (parked at the terminal). The flight is delayed by an hour due to maintenance. Obviously a coincidence. Enough to make some passengers anxiously look at each other when it was announced!
 
just heard the plane had just received a service/maintenance.

it's likely that something was done incorrectly/not set back from the settings needed for maintenance.


like the flight where they had left the air system on manual instead of auto and the crew got hypoxia and then passed out and died and the plane just flew on with everyone o nbaord dead.
 
I haven't been looking in to the theories of this crash, they know where the wreckage is so I see no real need for speculation. However how does that work? Isn't the purpose of oxygen supplies to combat decompression? I know passengers don't get that long but the pilots do, certaintly long enough for an emergency decent to a safe altitude. Unless the theory is that the pilots performed an emergency decent and simply didn't, or for some reason couldn't, level out at the bottom of the decent.

doesn't have to be a sudden decompression or the system may not be providing sufficient oxygen, its quite hard to notice your becoming hypoxic as your judgement gets impaired quickly and you get confused.

see

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Helios_Airways_Flight_522


As the aircraft climbed, the pressure inside the cabin gradually decreased. As it passed through an altitude of 12,040 feet (3,670 m), the cabin altitude warning horn sounded.[3] The warning should have prompted the crew to stop climbing,[12] but it was misidentified by the crew as a take-off configuration warning, which signals that the aircraft is not ready for take-off, and can only sound on the ground.[12]

In the next few minutes, several warning lights on the overhead panel in the cockpit illuminated. One or both of the equipment cooling warning lights came on to indicate low airflow through the cooling fans (a result of the decreased air density), accompanied by the master caution light. The passenger oxygen light illuminated when, at an altitude of approximately 18,000 feet (5,500 m), the oxygen masks in the passenger cabin automatically deployed.[13][14]

Shortly after the cabin altitude warning sounded, the captain radioed the Helios operations centre and reported "the take-off configuration warning on" and "cooling equipment normal and alternate off line".[3] He then spoke to the ground engineer and repeatedly stated that the "cooling ventilation fan lights were off".[3] The engineer (the one who had conducted the pressurization leak check) asked "Can you confirm that the pressurization panel is set to AUTO?" The captain, possibly experiencing the onset of the initial effects of hypoxia,[15] disregarded the question and instead asked in reply, "Where are my equipment cooling circuit breakers?".[14] This was the last communication with the aircraft.[16]
 
Hey everyone, thought I'd give my 2p here.

I am a commercial pilot, flew for Europe's "favorite" low fares airline for a while before moving into the world of corporate aviation. I've no experience on the A320 but I've got a few thousand hours in Boeing 737's and Citation XLS's to back up my opinions.

Sadly there are a lot of "experts" out there, even sadder still news channels like to talk to them and from a pilots perspective, it's embarrassing what comes out of their mouths sometimes. If you want facts, please disregard ALL mainstream media, please check out this rather excellent website which is well known in the aviation industry for being the source for reliable details: http://avherald.com/h?article=483a5651&opt=0

As for what happened, well I'm often reluctant to speculate because there isn't usually just one thing that goes wrong. Aviation is a system of backup on backup on backup, each layer with a multiple of holes, but the hope is through all backups the error can't slip through. It's nicknamed the Swiss cheese model, for obvious reasons.

However, there are some theories, the most plausible in my opinion being a pressurisation problem. These are relatively common (Though I've never had one and don't know anyone who has) but it is a very well practiced procedure: Oxygen masks on, establish cockpit communication, diagnose, descend. Depending on the nature of the depressurisation depends on how fast you go down. If it's a structural issue then you do not put any undue stress on the airframe, go down slow and steady. If it's an outflow valve stuck open (just one example of a non structural pressurisation fault), then it's cut power, set 10,000ft, airbrakes out and set speed to Vmo or Mmo (speed or mach maximum operating). The 737-800 that I flew for that certain Irish carrier would be about 320kts, the A320 I believe it's 350kts, you'll descend very quick, initially we're talking 4000fpm+, reducing to maybe 2000fpm by 10,000ft. This means that the 10 minutes to descend is well within the flight envelope.

We use 10,000ft, or Flight Level 100, because at that altitude the air is thick enough for us to be alert, unless you're a smoker then you can knock a few 1000 of that figure.

Airbus aircraft also have protection from over stressing the aircraft, if it sees the aircraft over speeding it will reduce rate of descent and automatically retard the thrust levers. The speed of impact would likely have been at the top end of this, 350kts = 402mph airspeed, which at 6000ft could be 450mph ground speed depending on pressure/temp/wind. Whatever happens, nothing will be left of the aircraft, which backs up the photos that are surfacing now.

They were heading over towards the Alps, over the mountains you've got to be very aware of your sector safe altitude, the lowest you can descend in the case of an emergency, as the ground comes up to meet you. The area around Mt. Blanc for example, you cannot descend below 18,000ft, so you can imagine if there is a problem the pilots would not continue towards the mountains.

So, again IMO, this leads us to possible pilot incapacitation, did they get the oxygen masks on in time? Did they start the descent then put them on? If this is the case they'd happily be descending at the average 3400fpm descent totally unconscious. As they pass 10,000ft they'd slowly gain consciousness, pulling out of the dive at 6400ft, where they apparently flew level at this altitude for 1 minute before impacting mountains roughly 9,000ft in height.

The only flaws in this I can see are a) why did both of the crew not get oxygen on in time, it's the very first thing to do and b) why did they set level off altitude at FL064 not FL100 or even better, the MSA? Why carry on into high ground and not turn off route into flatter land into France?

There are reports of possibly no mayday call too. The squawk was not set 7700, again this strikes me as incapacitation. The old aviation saying; aviate, navigate, communicate, is important in this. Communication is last on the list of things to do. First is fly the thing, then fly not in the right direction, then finally tell people what you're doing.

It's strange, we wont know until cockpit and black box recordings are analysed, which I believe is already underway, so we'll know a bit more in 48hrs.

As for the age of the aircraft, 24 years is not old at all. Aircraft are maintained to a standard that would far surpass what anyone could imagine, I believe this one had a major check in 2013 and came out of maintenance just the day before. It made it's way to Barcelona too, so it was likely maintained correctly.

It's a very sad day for aviation, a very sad day to see my fellow aviators die too. But this is not a common thing, this is not normal and not something to worry about. The A320 is one of the most common and safe aircraft ever produced, I'd have all the confidence to fly one and fly in one.

Remember that there are 10,000+ flights per day, every day, so whilst there are accidents, these things are rare.
 
just heard the plane had just received a service/maintenance.

it's likely that something was done incorrectly/not set back from the settings needed for maintenance.


like the flight where they had left the air system on manual instead of auto and the crew got hypoxia and then passed out and died and the plane just flew on with everyone o nbaord dead.


If it is they seriously need to do some more vigorous checks after maintenence, I kind of have a feeling some of these things are rushed through (although I could be very wrong), as an airplane on the ground is an airplane costing money, and not earning money

Although something tells me something else was the cause. Although I am not really one to speculate until we see evidence

It would actually be good if somehow somewhere along the line, maybe in the distant future there is a way to evacuate passengers from a pending disaster, although this would be a whole world of engineering and completely based on scenario.

I also think there should be a way of cockpit video data recorders, to visually see what is going on that can be recovered could help understand events leading up to it aswel as voice data and flight data.

IIRC dont train drivers/bus drivers all have CCTV
 
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