Airbus A320 Crashes in Alps

mid_gen · 26 Mar 2015 at 07:48

C.R.A.Z.Y said:
I'd hardly class a plane that can carry 150 people small
O.K it's not one of these new double decker super planes but it's hardly small.

So do these 'medium' sized planes normally have flight engineers then? Does anyone know?

No, only two in the cockpit on a small airliner like this.

DJMK4 · 26 Mar 2015 at 07:49

Blimy :\ so was there no noise at all sounding like a copilot who had taken control? Or just the sound of bashing

This is another reason why cctv would be good

dannyjo22 · 26 Mar 2015 at 07:57

Hades said:
One pilot should never be alone in the cockpit. If one pilot leaves then a member of the cabin crew should remain in the cockpit until they return.

http://www.latimes.com/world/la-fg-german-jet-crash-door-20150325-story.html

Why? If the pilot wants to get back in he can by entering the door code, I imagine he did that but the pilot still flying blocked him all the way to the mountain by rejecting his entry. Having a cabin crew member wouldn't change anything. There's an axe in the flight deck, if you want to go to the lengths people are presuming it wouldn't be hard to over power an 7st girl.

You can't have the door system any other way. For instance the codes for my airline everyone knows, it would too risky to change it everyday and you can't have anyone entering a code to come in no matter what. Door protocol is fine. If this is deliberate there really isn't a lot you can do about it. He could have just picked the fire extinguisher up and walloped the other pilot with that.

If he's banging on the door like reports how utterly terrifying for all on the plane

dannyjo22 · 26 Mar 2015 at 07:58

DJMK4 said:
Blimy :\ so was there no noise at all sounding like a copilot who had taken control? Or just the sound of bashing

This is another reason why cctv would be good

You don't need cctv, they will know pretty much every switch position he makes. If he rejected the door entry they will know and if he started the decent they will know. cctv won't be needed to back that up.

Uhtred · 26 Mar 2015 at 08:01

Having a flight engineer is more to do with the sophistication of the on board computers. It's rare these days as far as I know.

On the long haul routes you can have more than two pilots so they take shifts.

squerble · 26 Mar 2015 at 08:55

Only really old planes like the 707, 727s and DC10s you find flying around in lesser-developed countries will have a flight engineer. Since the 737 in the 1960s they've all been able to do away with the flight engineer due to automation.

neocon · 26 Mar 2015 at 08:57

More psychological testing for pilots. If true this pilot must have been a major psychopath

MooMoo444 · 26 Mar 2015 at 09:00

So what does it appear - a suicidal pilot who told his partner to go get a brew, then locked the door and crashed the plane?

DJMK4 · 26 Mar 2015 at 09:11

MooMoo444 said:
So what does it appear - a suicidal pilot who told his partner to go get a brew, then locked the door and crashed the plane?

I dont think a normal suicidal person would do that, take down 140 odd people with them

Only a jihadist would do that

If it was just a normal suicidal person then utter utter discrace

But something is telling me if it was intential, then there is some type of motive behind it

Tuppy_Glossop · 26 Mar 2015 at 09:12

The locked-out pilot report begs the question, 'Did anybody try to telephone out ?'

MooMoo444 · 26 Mar 2015 at 09:15

If his method of choice is crashing a plane though, not much chance to do that without passengers on board.

neil_g · 26 Mar 2015 at 09:16

DJMK4 said:
I dont think a normal suicidal person would do that, take down 140 odd people with them

i think its happened before.

if i remember rightly a japanese pilot that had racked up huge debts on the stock exchange, locked his co-pilot out and then stalled the plane.

edit - http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/asia-pacific/1071848.stm (probably not a japanese pilot, article does not state)

balky12 · 26 Mar 2015 at 09:24

I know virtually nothing about the saftey mechanisms re entrance to the aircrafts cockpit but people are saying the pilot can reject an entry request? (once a code is put in?)

So how does that work? Code gets entered and then pilot either accepts it or rejects it?

What if there is no reponse? (e.g. unconcious pilot). DOes it open automatically then?

DJMK4 · 26 Mar 2015 at 09:24

neil_g said:
i think its happened before.

if i remember rightly a japanese pilot that had racked up huge debts on the stock exchange, locked his co-pilot out and then stalled the plane.

edit - http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/asia-pacific/1071848.stm

Then that is hugely messed up

Saying that I guess your right there are other cases, even down on the ground. But still.

There is only so much vigorous pilot checks can do, this will be again turned around to pilot being locked out by possible intention, and what can stop it happening again, if they were able to gain access by some failsafe mechanism that is only available to do in an absolute situation like this, this wouldnt have happened.

Minstadave · 26 Mar 2015 at 09:27

There have been a few suspected pilot suicides, none linked to terror activities.

http://news.aviation-safety.net/2013/12/22/list-of-aircraft-accidents-caused-by-pilot-suicide/

squerble · 26 Mar 2015 at 09:27

balky12 said:
I know virtually nothing about the saftey mechanisms re entrance to the aircrafts cockpit but people are saying the pilot can reject an entry request? (once a code is put in?)

So how does that work? Code gets entered and then pilot either accepts it or rejects it?

What if there is no reponse? (e.g. unconcious pilot). DOes it open automatically then?

Yes, after a pre-determined time. If it's true the pilot was unable to get back in the cockpit, it would suggest an electrical fault with the door lock mechanism, or the more sinister situation where the pilot inside was holding the switch in the lock position, rejecting any attempts to get in.

MooMoo444 · 26 Mar 2015 at 09:28

balky12 said:
I know virtually nothing about the saftey mechanisms re entrance to the aircrafts cockpit but people are saying the pilot can reject an entry request? (once a code is put in?)

So how does that work? Code gets entered and then pilot either accepts it or rejects it?

What if there is no reponse? (e.g. unconcious pilot). DOes it open automatically then?

It's probably a scenario they can't really account for. There needs to be a way to block all access from inside the pilot cabin in the event of a terrorist takeover from the passenger cabin.

balky12 · 26 Mar 2015 at 09:28

squerble said:
Yes, after a pre-determined time. If it's true the pilot was unable to get back in the cockpit, it would suggest an electrical fault with the door lock mechanism, or the more sinister situation where the pilot inside was holding the switch in the lock position, rejecting any attempts to get in.

Thanks

balky12 · 26 Mar 2015 at 09:29

I have a new theory.

It was the work of 'The Freelancer'

LordVader · 26 Mar 2015 at 09:33

My G/F works as a stewardess onboard the same type of plane (A319/A320)

Some of the rubbish being talked about on here is crazy. The Pilot/Co pilot can freely leave the cockpit as longs one of them stays in there.

The door lock can be overridden outside the cockpit by crew using a special code/sequence. This method is there incase both pilots are incap and the cabin crew need to enter the flightdeck.

Again given enough time there are tools onboard that could have managed to brake the door down to give access.

Sure a circuit breaker could have been pulled by the pilot remaining inside the cockpit disabling the door but struggle to believe that (More likely a malfunction with the door lock/code panel)