Kansas legislates what welfare claimants can spend their money on..

estebanrey

estebanrey

estebanrey

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I know this will be popular here....

http://edition.cnn.com/2015/04/07/politics/kansas-welfare-restriction-law/

It aims to encourage those receiving government aid under the Temporary Assistance for Needy Families program to spend "more responsibly," as Kansas state Sen. Michael O'Donnell told the Topeka Capital-Journal.

"We're trying to make sure those benefits are used the way they were intended," O'Donnell, vice chair of the state senate's standing committee on public health and welfare, said. "This is about prosperity. This is about having a great life."

Having a great life, per the bill, means that welfare recipients cannot spend their government aid on body piercings, massages, spas, tobacco, nail salons, lingerie, arcades, cruise ships or visits to psychics.

The bill also forbids spending the funds at theme parks, dog or horse racing tracks, a "sexually oriented business or any retail establishment which provides adult-oriented entertainment in which performers disrobe or perform in an unclothed state for entertainment, or in any business or retail establishment where minors under age 18 are not permitted."

And it limits cash withdrawals of the funds to $25 a day, an attempt to prevent recipients from using their funds on inappropriate expenditures.
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I'm in two minds about this. On the one hand it does annoy me that someone I know who lives entirely off the state is uploading a picture of his new tattoo on Facebook every couple of weeks, but on the other I agree with the 'final judgement' made in the video where he says this isn't about money but humiliating the poor.

Thoughts and should be bring in something similar?
 
Mynight said:
On one hand I like the idea as it prevents wastage. On the other I feel it's inhumane.
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Quite, I guess my main issue with it is its uniformity. One day you've got a job and are regarded as 'hard working member of society' and the next be treated like blood-sucking scum who needs their money forcibly managed by the State.

I think I would feel more comfortable with a middle option, where there are no automatically implied restrictions on what someone spends their welfare on but 'last resort' sanctions can be brought in for those proven to be gaining the system (There should be a minimum time limit and even once over that the Job Centre would have to show you are making no effort to get a job, with a key requirement of the sanction being clear evidence of jobs that for the claimants skill set being available).
 
I'd have no problem with it if its impact was guaranteed to be 100% on its intended target - but there are always people who are in a bad position due to force of circumstance for whom measures like this are exactly like kicking a person when they are down.
 
How will they police it? I presume, like in the UK, welfare is paid into the recipient's bank account (or they are given cash) so how will this 'bad spending' be tracked and the restrictions enforced?

Will this mean the government can now spy on bank accounts for certain people? Will Kansas police now be told to be 'on the look out' for 'welfare types' going into tattoo parlours?
 
Didn't they try something similar with "food stamps", which just led to a black market where people got paid a fraction of the face value of the food stamps.

As for limiting the cash they can draw out, that's going to require the people probably have a "state debit" card or something which has a chance of stagmatising the users, but also costing the state more to provide.
And probably more importantly it'll mean that people won't be able to say go down to a market and get fresh produce, or goods from smaller retailers easily (especially if they're making low value transactions).
 
<checks this is in GD before responding>


Surely this could become a great reality TV Game Show format? Assorted down on their luck/desperate folk compete to win fags, booze, tattoos, lap dances etc. Maybe the losers could have to do hard labour or live off of gruel for a month - open to suggestions here.

That much human misery should grab audiences and be a real money spinner and could cut that benefits bill down in no time.
 
Can't see how limiting daily withdrawals will work - people would just withdraw the max and save it up to have it on hand if they wanted to buy something more expensive.
 
Kansas also destroyed itself via cutting taxes for rich and big businesses resulting in people just hoarding money whilst they claimed it'd "Trickle down" and create jobs lol....

GJ.... now it's time to punish poor people for our mistakes.

How about they also ban officials from spending taxpayers money on luxuries.
 
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tis too authoritarian for me

on one hand the problem with poor people isn't one of resources but rather poor choices by poor people themselves - as a group people on welfare smoke more, drink more, eat badly, are fatter etc..etc..

while you could in theory try and tackle some of this by some sort of food voucher/idiots guide whereby the various dole monkeys are given step by step instructions on how to spend their money on food etc.. I don't think enforcing it is right - tis up to them how they spend it and if they end up getting wasting money on scratchcards, cigarettes, alcohol, get into debt and start taking out silly loans with pay day lenders then so be it
 
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dowie said:
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Kansas actually did this, if you read they cut all taxes for the rich (middle class and poor remained unchanged or went up I think?), now they're screwed and running out of money.... so they've cut education and want to bring in things like this.

The world is going goddamned mad about welfare, in Britain they go on about it like it's the BIGGEST cause for concern yet banks are back to raping people and companies like apple viciously avoid paying any tax lol.... oh yeah we've REALLY gotta worry about a few chavs buying a couple packs of ciggies...

It's nuts....
 
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Maybe it's me....but I kind of like the idea....it will never happen with our governments mind but I still like the idea after some refinements.

In essence we have 2 types of people on benefit ('job seekers' allowance), 1 who is in need of help while they look for a new job and 2 the type who sees jsa as their source of income for their way of life.

Now type 1 I have NO problem with whatsoever, the whole idea of the benefits system was to help people who had fallen on hard times due to in most cases no fault of their own. This type of person doesn't need restrictions because they've paid their dues.

Type 2 however have rarely worked if at all and in a lot of cases get a lot more than most people earn from working. Not to mention all the other perks they're entitled to, cheap phones/internet, reduced/free rent, reduced electric/water bills. I've got a few of these types near me, one of them has so much 'iceland' food delivered it's stupid and they have takeaway more often than not.... and yes they are overweight... funny that

Now this type of person should be restricted in every way possible, they have NO intention of finding work and I have no concerns about them being shamed/embarrassed because simply put they won't care. Give them food tickets which require id for all I care, at the end of the day I'm/we're paying for them to live a better life than 90% of hard working people can.

The government also needs to get on top of corporation tax issues too but that's another matter.
 
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lsg1r said:
The government also needs to get on top of corporation tax issues too but that's another matter.
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Another matter but a hugely complicated one none the less the problem often being that if they tried to clamp down on those big businesses they'd just resort to other measures such as operating from outside the UK taking jobs and other financial benefits from them having a presence in the UK with them - its generally a lose, lose situation.

I find it mad there is no middle ground when it comes to unemployment benefits - it seems to alternate between them doing nothing at all for their benefits and sitting on the arses all day or crack downs with silly schemes that aren't so far removed from slave labour and results in them resorting to abusing the system i.e. disability benefits to get around it. Most of them given 1-2x 5 hour sessions a week of doing something semi productive in return for their benefits would generally end up in some kind of job eventually.
 
you had better believe that to implement this, there would need to be 9 layers of management hanging around doing sweet FA, a bit like a Labour Government, for evey $25 released per week, $1 of that would go on wages for 'The Boys'
 
I don't know, it's free money at the end of the day.

if people choose to spend it on that kind of stuff, just don't pick up the pieces afterwards, there is only so much you can do for people before you really should just let natural selection run its course.
 
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