How do people afford such nice cars ?

Iamzod · 13 Apr 2015 at 00:14

WJA96 said:
I posted mine because someone who wasn't actually in his company's car scheme was so vehemently opposed to it that he wanted to opt out of it without knowing what it was and, as always, I received the wisdom of the OcUK population. Such as it is.

If you refer to myself which it looks like you do, where do I say I do not know what the scheme is?

WJA96 · 13 Apr 2015 at 00:28

Iamzod said:
If you refer to myself which it looks like you do, where do I say I do not know what the scheme is?

You're not currently in the company car scheme.

So to state that if you ever got to join it you would not participate means that you would not participate no matter what the scheme was, because you have no idea what the scheme might be in the future.

So you wouldn't join it even without knowing what it was.

QED.

Blackhawk47 · 13 Apr 2015 at 00:57

Housey said:
Don't be negative towards wisdom, some people have MUCH more that you an I on many things.

Like spelling and grammar m8?

BigT · 13 Apr 2015 at 07:36

WJA96, is it possible to take your generous £800 a month car allowance a personally lease a new micro grot box for £99 a month and be within your rules? And if so how is that not making £700 a month extra in salary and thus going against the spirit of your principles?

Not trying to inflammatory but I'm just not seeing How without a bit of discretion you don't get abuse like that in honouring the ethos of why you're so strict.

[TW]Fox · 13 Apr 2015 at 07:56

WJA96 said:
You're not currently in the company car scheme.

So to state that if you ever got to join it you would not participate means that you would not participate no matter what the scheme was, because you have no idea what the scheme might be in the future.

So you wouldn't join it even without knowing what it was.

QED.

Which is fair enough because even a scheme that offers totally free Ferraris to everyone is fairly easy to cost out hypothetically as the BIK is a known quantity. The better the car the more tax you pay so it's fairly reasonable for him to know he'd never see a situation whereby he'd want to pay that tax in order to have a company car.

WJA96 · 13 Apr 2015 at 08:29

BigT said:
WJA96, is it possible to take your generous £800 a month car allowance a personally lease a new micro grot box for £99 a month and be within your rules? And if so how is that not making £700 a month extra in salary and thus going against the spirit of your principles?

Not trying to inflammatory but I'm just not seeing How without a bit of discretion you don't get abuse like that in honouring the ethos of why you're so strict.

Yes, you could. We have someone running a petrol Audi A1 on that basis. It's not costing them half the allowance, but it's on a 63 plate and under the mileage allowed. It's not about what someone can or can't do. It's about what they can or can't do within the rules.

Do also bear in mind that the £800/month is before tax and NI so a higher rate tax payer only takes home £400 of that. But if you are PCPing a lightly used 1.4 Twincharger A1 for £199/month over 3 years it leaves you about £2400 per year for insurance and maintenance. So it has been pointed out that it's not THAT generous.

WJA96 · 13 Apr 2015 at 08:31

[TW]Fox;27903188 said:
Which is fair enough because even a scheme that offers totally free Ferraris to everyone is fairly easy to cost out hypothetically as the BIK is a known quantity. The better the car the more tax you pay so it's fairly reasonable for him to know he'd never see a situation whereby he'd want to pay that tax in order to have a company car.

And the implication from his statement was that he would take the money. And my comment was simply that even if he took the money he would not necessarily be able to just lump it into his salary.

Colbaker · 13 Apr 2015 at 09:27

I supply courtesy cars for premium warrenty breakdowns and in my experience a lot of premium cars are leased or company cars. Mostly leased though.

Havana_UK · 13 Apr 2015 at 09:43

Colbaker said:
I supply courtesy cars for premium warrenty breakdowns and in my experience a lot of premium cars are leased or company cars. Mostly leased though.

People are moving away from "premium" cars as company cars because of the, frankly penal, tax changes. It's changing to the extent that unless you are prepared to pay through the nose in tax you're forced into a 4 cylinder ~2L diesel, whereas before this year's changes a 6cyl ~3L diesel would have been bearable.

[TW]Fox · 13 Apr 2015 at 09:53

Havana_UK said:
People are moving away from "premium" cars as company cars because of the, frankly penal, tax changes.

Totally untrue, if anything the complete opposite is the case as the premium manufacturers are the ones leading the charge for low co2 high bling cars that people want. Mercedes and BMW are selling more cars than ever to fleets as a result but most of them are now tiny engined diesel rubbish covered in bling with enormous wheels.

Blackhawk47 · 13 Apr 2015 at 10:12

WJA96 said:
1.4 Twincharger A1 for £199/month over 3 years it leaves you about £2400 per year for insurance and maintenance.

I guarantee you the 1.4 TFSI (185ps with turbo/supercharger) is not £199 a month on pcp. 1.4 TFSI (122ps) which is single turbo is what it will be.

WJA96 · 13 Apr 2015 at 10:40

Blackhawk47 said:
I guarantee you the 1.4 TFSI (185ps with turbo/supercharger) is not £199 a month on pcp. 1.4 TFSI (122ps) which is single turbo is what it will be.

It's absolutely, definitely the problematic twincharger one because the engine was replaced before the first service. The car was not new (63 plate), it was used (possibly ex demonstrator) and I believe the asking price was £18,750.

And it was £199/month over 3 years on a PCP. I can call the person concerned and ask what the deposit was, but really? Haven't you worked out yet that I'm not spoofing this?

WJA96 · 13 Apr 2015 at 10:44

[TW]Fox;27903519 said:
Totally untrue, if anything the complete opposite is the case as the premium manufacturers are the ones leading the charge for low co2 high bling cars that people want. Mercedes and BMW are selling more cars than ever to fleets as a result but most of them are now tiny engined diesel rubbish covered in bling with enormous wheels.

+1 - The residuals on good brands (Audi, BMW, Mercedes, Mini) is significantly better than 'ordinary' ones (Ford, Skoda, SEAT, Vauxhall, VW) and much better than the Koreans. Because the residuals are better, they are cheaper to lease. Offer someone a reasonable spec Audi or BMW for roughly the same BIK as a Kia or a Hyundai and they always take the more prestigious marque. They just do.

flibbage0 · 13 Apr 2015 at 10:46

WJA96 said:
It's absolutely, definitely the problematic twincharger one because the engine was replaced before the first service. The car was not new (63 plate), it was used (possibly ex demonstrator) and I believe the asking price was £18,750.

And it was £199/month over 3 years on a PCP. I can call the person concerned and ask what the deposit was, but I really? Haven't you worked out yet that I'm not spoofing this?

I don't think anyone here is suggesting that you're being fictitious, besides that I have one question.

If you know that a certain car has a problematic engine, is it not possible to blacklist that car?

Blackhawk47 · 13 Apr 2015 at 10:47

I haven't said that you are spoofing. And you really didn't need to PM me a thesis last night about your work lifestyle.

I'm saying that I doubt a £18-19k used car is £199 a month on pcp. Heck my TT is double that per month. My old A1 black edition which was £16k used/6 or 7 months old was £284 per month.

WJA96 · 13 Apr 2015 at 11:37

flibbage0 said:
I don't think anyone here is suggesting that you're being fictitious, besides that I have one question.

If you know that a certain car has a problematic engine, is it not possible to blacklist that car?

Not really, no. any car could be a nightmare. Even a brand new 'premium' brand one. It's all under warranty so it got fixed.

WJA96 · 13 Apr 2015 at 11:55

Blackhawk47 said:
I'm saying that I doubt a £18-19k used car is £199 a month on pcp. Heck my TT is double that per month. My old A1 black edition which was £16k used/6 or 7 months old was £284 per month.

The car was £18750. That was discounted to £18000. The deposit was £3600 (20% was the minimum to get the interest rate apparently) with a GFV of £8700. Lloyds/Black Horse did the PCP finance at 3.1% flat (5% APR) so the finance charges are £1300-ish on £14400 borrowed with repayments of £199/month that does seem to add up.

Audi's used car finance is outrageous. It's something like 11.5% APR. That could explain why you're paying so much. If you fall on the wrong side of their credit scoring system (because of your age, don't have your own house etc.) you could be paying even more.

Oh, and note the GFV on a 33,000 mile/3.5 year old A1 that had a list price of £24,500. It's 33% of list, which is awful for a supermini.

WJA96 · 13 Apr 2015 at 11:57

And the finance example is about the most on-topic thing in this thread in the last 24 hours!

Blackhawk47 · 13 Apr 2015 at 13:12

WJA96 said:
Audi's used car finance is outrageous. It's something like 11.5% APR. That could explain why you're paying so much. If you fall on the wrong side of their credit scoring system (because of your age, don't have your own house etc.) you could be paying even more.

Yes the interest is bonkers, I am on a 4 year deal (I think it may be more than 11%!) this time but looking into personal loan to pay it off, probably next year if not this year. First A1 was new though so managed to get the 6% apr on a 2 year term..

JoeF1 · 13 Apr 2015 at 16:15

Atleast you're allowing them to have petrol cars. My employers are very strict on diesel only and nothing bigger than a Saloon so no 4WD's etc.