Poll: General election voting poll round 3

[robgmun]

i'd take that with a pinch of salt. The average Nick Ferrari listener isn't exactly centred in their political views. most of the callers to his show are probably more to the right than UKIP so would be more likely to take those kind of views up

Seems like what Farage has said it starting to grow legs

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/pol...debate-audience-despite-Ukip-bias-claims.html

 

[Hades]

There are much bigger problems to worry about in the UK right now than a group of net contributors.

There is an assumption that EU migration has been a net benefit. I have my doubts.

Firstly I will state that I don't intend to vote UKIP so I am not defending their policies due to that. Secondly I have absolutely no issue with individual migrants in the country. But how do you measure whether someone is a net contributor or not? From my perspective I have seen salaries reduce over time through labour competition. Education is another sore point for me; my daughter was declined from the only school that we are in the catchment area for because they are full (there was no such issue when we bought the house 7 years ago).

Immigration is of course not the sole cause of these. But in an era when we have other issues with a shortage of housing and school places to contend with we simply can't have an uncontrolled open doors immigration policy.

 

[joeyjojo]

UKIP favours lower taxes and smaller government, which puts them far closer to the libertarian end of the axis than the authoritarian end. Its hard to be an authoritarian leader when you're supporting democracy and cutting the size of government.

I don't disagree, but those are all fiscal issues, which is the left/right axis on these charts. Fiscal liberalism = right-wing. The up/down axis is the social liberal/authoritarian axis. Here UKIP are anything but liberal, as explained earlier.

But their policies on drugs, crime and immigration are very libertarian (almost anarchism really), which is why they are where they are on that compass.

Exactly. They're fiscally left (bigger state, more welfare, more equality, more control of market, OPPOSITE of liberal) and socially very liberal (freedom to be member of a terrorist organisation, etc.).

I would say more fiscally responsible than a left party. It seems you're defining social authoritarianism with austerity being tipped more towards those happy to live on state benefits as a long term way of life. I'd rather see lower taxes, less spent on services so that we can encourage greater reward for working.

Perfectly fine opinions. The middle sentence doesn't make sense.

For clarity, the UKIP policies, please do take a moment to read, gain clarity and dispel the left propaganda.

http://www.ukip.org/policies_for_people

It's just a summary list. I did read it though - the fascination with the armed forces is interesting. "Fast track" health care for veterans? Sounds a bit American to me.

I like very much their pledge to end PFI for hospitals, but would take it with a huge pinch of salt. Farrage has said before he wants to get away from a nationalised health service in favour of private insurance. This would be a disaster IMO.

You can ignore either mob and look at the facts and independent professional predictions, e.g. may2015.com

I think ubersonic means that with FPTP, UKIP votes will replace Conservative votes causing a swing to Labour. I don't know how many marginal seats there are where this is likely.

lol, brought to mind the Brass Eye AIDS episode....

 

[deuse]

The US doesn't have a points based visa

Both have a similar systems so they can say who does\doesn't get in. With the EU we can't keep murders out.

"Rouf Uddin, 39, wanted by Belgian authorities in connection with the murder of his neighbour"

"Alexandru Cucu, 27, wanted by Romanian authorities for beating a security guard with an iron rod, metal pipe and an axe handle. He has links with the Enfield area"

"Janusz Kedziora, also known as Michal Krawczyk, is wanted by Polish authorities for actual bodily harm (ABH), criminal damage, robbery, attempted robbery and burglary. Officers believe the 28-year-old may be living in Newham or Waltham Forest"

"Balint Budi, 25, wanted by Romanian authorities in connection with human trafficking."

"Krzysztof Malkowski, 39, wanted by Polish authorities for grievous bodily harm and is due to serve 19 months imprisonment "

"Mantas Jurgsat, 25, wanted by Lithuanian authorities over an assault on a man who was stabbed multiple times.
Jan Hiszpanski, 36, wanted by Polish authorities for robbing a man after he was hit on the head and strangled
Silviu-Bogdan Bruzlea, 27, is wanted by Romanian authorities to serve a 20-year jail sentence for murdering a man with a baseball bat"

All hiding here. If we had the old kind of visa system they would not be here.
Also it keeps the UKs rubbish in the UK.

 

[robgmun]

Labour are rotten to the core, i hope the people of rotherham wake up and kick out the pedo-party

https://www.politicshome.com/home-affairs/articles/story/rotherham-mp-opposed-child-abuse-inquiry

 

[D.P.]

There is an assumption that EU migration has been a net benefit. I have my doubts.

That isn't an assumption, it is a fact born out from evidence.

 

[Hades]

That isn't an assumption, it is a fact born out from evidence.

Yes I've heard and read that many times. I don't believe every factor is looked at when those statements are made.

 

[ElliorR]

Labour are rotten to the core, i hope the people of rotherham wake up and kick out the pedo-party

https://www.politicshome.com/home-affairs/articles/story/rotherham-mp-opposed-child-abuse-inquiry

Covering up paedophilia by anyone is abhorrent but despite cries from the right wing let's not forget it's been shown Thatcher knew about Peter Hayman and also passed Cyril Smiths knighthood despite It being well known, in political circles, of his predilections. Why doesn't that make the Tories rotten to the core? Oh I know why, some people on the right think they're never in the wrong.

 

[D.P.]

Yes I've heard and read that many times. I don't believe every factor is looked at when those statements are made.

When you start looking at other factors you realize the benefits are even greater, e.g. the cost to educate and train equivalent workers is a substantial saving which is not taken into account.

 

[thep02]

The audience was from London, which is not in favour of UKip, the independent organisation is the same one that the the Guardian polls which are leftwing.

You do the maths.

Misleading, the vast majority of UK voters dislike UKIP strongly so fairly open hostility should be expected, dude the audience was picked by ICM any bias that wasn't supported by research would be death for one of the worlds top pollsters so pretty unlikely unless that turkey loves paper hats and mince pies much more than most turkeys.

 

[Zethor]

No one's denying there are fantastic migrants from the EU, or that overall there's a positive net contribution, but the point is that within that there is negative immigration which can be combated without stopping the positive immigration.

I don't think you're following here. An EU immigrant pays ~12% more in taxes than what they take in benefits, despite the fact they are currently not regulated and they can move in and out as they please. Immigrants outside the EU, whose movement is restricted, who need work visas and go through checks (which is exactly what UKIP wants to do for everyone) take in 1% more in benefits than what they pay in taxes. They literally cost the country money. Yet.. UKIP wants more of them? If you really think immigrants are a drain, being for an EU exit goes against the motive of your position and that fits perfectly into the definition of insanity.

 

[Hades]

When you start looking at other factors you realize the benefits are even greater, e.g. the cost to educate and train equivalent workers is a substantial saving which is not taken into account.

Greater benefits to large business who get cheap labour. But what happens to those people who would have been trained in the past, but are no longer trained because we simply imported someone who had the skills? They are left untrained and competing against a sea of other unskilled people which pushes down wages for everyone.

Business loves getting people cheaper but it is building problems for the future.

 

[thep02]

Not the point, by showing his nasty side to millions on TV he showed it to many people who might have voted UKIP because they hadn't seen it and had dismissed such talk as just anti-UKIP propaganda.

Who would risk that level of instability and evident lack of self control in a PM.

 

[bloodiedathame]

I don't think you're following here. An EU immigrant pays ~12% more in taxes than what they take in benefits, despite the fact they are currently not regulated and they can move in and out as they please. Immigrants outside the EU, whose movement is restricted, who need work visas and go through checks (which is exactly what UKIP wants to do for everyone) take in 1% more in benefits than what they pay in taxes. They literally cost the country money. Yet.. UKIP wants more of them? If you really think immigrants are a drain, being for an EU exit goes against the motive of your position and that fits perfectly into the definition of insanity.

With controlled immigration that first EU figure could be 95%...
Got a similar figure for what the British taxpayer pays as a %age against British citizen welfare?

The second one, got sources?

I'm not being provocative, but 75% of stats are made up (like that one).

 

[Zethor]

Greater benefits to large business who get cheap labour. But what happens to those people who would have been trained in the past, but are no longer trained because we simply imported someone who had the skills? They are left untrained and competing against a sea of other unskilled people which pushes down wages for everyone.

Business loves getting people cheaper but it is building problems for the future.

Immigration does not decrease skilled workers wages. At worst, it has a minor impact on unskilled worker wages.

http://ftp.iza.org/dp2481.pdf
http://www.migrationobservatory.ox.ac.uk/briefings/migrants-uk-labour-market-overview

 

[robgmun]

Covering up paedophilia by anyone is abhorrent but despite cries from the right wing let's not forget it's been shown Thatcher knew about Peter Hayman and also passed Cyril Smiths knighthood despite It being well known, in political circles, of his predilections. Why doesn't that make the Tories rotten to the core? Oh I know why, some people on the right think they're never in the wrong.

Oh don't get me wrong, all three are as bad as each other, just waiting on Dolphin House to explode for the Tories. But in Rotherham it's the Labour party that are responsible

 

[koolpc]

Misleading, the vast majority of UK voters dislike UKIP strongly so fairly open hostility should be expected, dude the audience was picked by ICM any bias that wasn't supported by research would be death for one of the worlds top pollsters so pretty unlikely unless that turkey loves paper hats and mince pies much more than most turkeys.

Audience was hand picked just like the questions! Such a false program! Should have been independent with unknown questions. Such a load of stitched up media!

 

[Zethor]

With controlled immigration that first EU figure could be 95%...

I repeat: controlled immigration, which is currently applied to non-EU immigrants costs money - it has a small but negative tax vs. benefit impact. Use your head and try to understand the implications of extending controlled immigration. Or let me do it for you: there will be less people coming in from the EU, and more from Pakistan, India and Nigeria.

Got a similar figure for what the British taxpayer pays as a %age against British citizen welfare?

The second one, got sources?

I'm not being provocative, but 75% of stats are made up (like that one).

The British taxpayer takes in ~10% more in benefits than what they pay in taxes.

And yes, I have sources for all of the numbers I've mentioned.

http://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2014/nov/05/eu-migrants-uk-gains-20bn-ucl-study
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/wires/pa/article-2821188/EU-immigrant-tax-gain-revealed.html

 

[Zethor]

I do understand the figures, thanks. But that doesn't mean the situation with current EU migrants, in terms of the size of the net contribution across all of them, couldn't be further improved (by sorting the wheat from the chaff, if you will).

If it can be improved through various regulations, then surely it would be logical to first apply such regulations to non-EU immigrants, as they have negative net contributions? What exactly are UKIP's proposals regarding non-EU immigrants?

 

[robgmun]

Interesting, here's another view of the Farages attack on the audience, from the audience!

http://www.buzzfeed.com/jamieross/t...l-farage-had-a-point-about-th?hc_location=ufi