Expectancy of working past hours

[Robdav]

at the end of the day by doing the "extra" hours you and the people you work with are hiding a resourcing issue. clearly they do not have the right level of resource to match the required number of people to support the business. this is not down to you to cover this shortfall for free. I wouldn't expect my staff to do this, i would expect them to call this out and for them to manage my expectations so that I can then manage the business expectation.

do not work the extra hours. go spend them living your life and finding another role closer to home. I spent 8 years doing silly hours and silly commuting for what turned out to be a lower salary then every other manager. don't do it. move on.

 

[Semple]

I work in an IT support environment for a huge IT company, although we're not contractually paid overtime (unless working on-call at the weekend) but they do offer flexible hours. In the nature of support not everything is 9-5, and even more so when supporting customers globally. So i have on a number of occasions had to work excessive hours, but then when things quieten down you can take those hours back. In fact it's a little more extreme than that, half the developers i work among will typically work an extra hour Mon-Thu, and do half days on Friday.

 

[dowie]

then pay for the longer hours, or hire more staff. Either the mangers are idiots because they've understaffed themselves or the staff are idiots for working for free.

they pay a salary and bonus... you negotiate a salary when you start and you kick up a fuss/negotiate if your pay rise/bonus isn't to expectations

you have less leverage to do this if you're leaving at 5pm on the dot

if you're not experienced then you have less leverage to ask for more pay

i get paid more than the op and i only work 4 days a week lol and start and leave bang on the minute.

pay can rise rather quickly and go to quite high levels

like I said public sector roles or other less competitive private sector roles would be the way to go if long hours aren't wanted. I'm sure there are teachers earning more than the OP - thing is their pay will stay in that range, it doesn't have to at all in financial technology

 

[Tefal]

Fair enough mate. I retract my previous statement.

its just the way it is here always had a very strong union, and every worker is taking legal responsibility for the work he personally does so the company expects us to follow process and we expect them to follow process.

from our view if they expected us to work over time each shift for free, then it would be unprofessional we'd be stressed and tired and in a rush and people would start making mistakes or cutting corners which would be unsafe.

 

[Tefal]

they pay a salary and bonus... you negotiate a salary when you start and you kick up a fuss/negotiate if your pay rise/bonus isn't to expectations

you have less leverage to do this if you're leaving at 5pm on the dot

if you're not experienced then you have less leverage to ask for more pay

pay can rise rather quickly and go to quite high levels

like I said public sector roles or other less competitive private sector roles would be the way to go if long hours aren't wanted

then contract for longer hours i f you need your employees to stay till 7pm each shift contract them for that.

if the idiots all turned around and went "right its 5pm you pay us time an half or we **** off now" as a whole then management would be sitting down at a table negotiating with them the next day.

 

[Tefal]

they pay a salary and bonus... you negotiate a salary when you start and you kick up a fuss/negotiate if your pay rise/bonus isn't to expectations

you have less leverage to do this if you're leaving at 5pm on the dot

if you're not experienced then you have less leverage to ask for more pay



pay can rise rather quickly and go to quite high levels

like I said public sector roles or other less competitive private sector roles would be the way to go if long hours aren't wanted. I'm sure there are teachers earning more than the OP - thing is their pay will stay in that range, it doesn't have to at all in financial technology

which means he'll probably have to work longer and again an each time his per hour rate drops.


overtime can earn you a **** load of money if you're willing to do it. but doing it for free in the hope they may eventually raise your wage so that you're getting the hourly rate they initially offered you is insane.

 

[dowie]

nah it is standard... and the sort of roles that pay overtime don't tend to compare to the sort of pay you can earn even as an IT monkey in a large bank

if your hourly rate is dropping then you're **** at negotiating and probably should look for an easy 9-5 elsewhere

 

[Haggisman]

if you're really not happy with the salary then don't take the job

The op was clearly happy about the salary for the contracted hours

If the company expected to be able to knock 12.5% off his contracted salary, there would be a massive outcry, even though it would be ultimately the same thing

Would you be happy if your employer decided to give you a pay cut equivalent to an hour a day?

 

[dowie]

The op was clearly happy about the salary for the contracted hours

If the company expected to be able to knock 12.5% off his contracted salary, there would be a massive outcry, even though it would be ultimately the same thing

OP was clearly a bit naive about working for a large bank as he's neither asked about bonus or what hours the team works

Would you be happy if your employer decided to give you a pay cut equivalent to an hour a day?

he's paid a salary, he can negotiate the salary before joining - he can also ask about hours the team works, bonus % etc.. before joining

at the end of a probation period and once a year you can negotiate for a raise and you can expect a bonus... in fact you can even e-mail HR/your manager and ask for a mid year review if you think you're really being screwed and have put in a lot of hours. You can get an offer from a rival firm and see if they'll match it, you can go work for a rival firm or go contracting.... You can always ask for more but they have to think you're worth it - if you're clocking off at 5pm then you'd better be seen as super valuable/productive.

If you're not comfortable with negotiating pay and you're worried about some hours mentioned in a contract and consider working different hours to be 'working for free' then don't join a large bank... go work somewhere with set pay grades, people working 9-5 etc..

 

[OspreyO]

While I have worked beyond my hours, as some roles required it, or it has become normalised.

But its never really ever been worth it, either financially, or as a means of promotion. I think it devalues your worth.

 

[RDM]

I'm a teacher, the job would be impossible without some out of hours work.

The flipside though is you get 13 weeks holiday...

 

[Haggisman]

If you're not comfortable with negotiating pay and you're worried about some hours mentioned in a contract and consider working different hours to be 'working for free' then don't join a large bank... go work somewhere with set pay grades, people working 9-5 etc..

Negotiating pay has nothing to do with it? If you negotiate your pay based on X hours, and then once you're happy with what you've been offered and accept it you find out that you can ignore those X hours, because actually you're expected to work Y hours, then it's not really on.

If (as you seem to be saying) contracted hours are irrelevant, then why doesn't the OP start leaving an hour early?

I'm a teacher, the job would be impossible without some out of hours work.

The flipside though is you get 13 weeks holiday...

You also get paid 1.3? hours for every hour of teaching (at least I used to)

 

[Ayahuasca]

I get the same funny looks from people when I walk out the office at 5pm on the dot on a Monday (work from home the rest of the week). Difference is me and the lad I work with talk while working, the rest in the office seem to stop what they're doing and go on half an hour conversations before continuing again and wonder why they aren't finished.

 

[Rroff]

I get the same funny looks from people when I walk out the office at 5pm on the dot on a Monday (work from home the rest of the week). Difference is me and the lad I work with talk while working, the rest in the office seem to stop what they're doing and go on half an hour conversations before continuing again and wonder why they aren't finished.

Thats one thing that really annoys me - I pretty much come in get down to my job and if I'm chatting to someone at all largely it'll be while working, there are a good number that think nothing of chatting away for 20 minutes at a time while not doing their jobs then get funny if/when I get to go home earlier. I don't have a problem with them/don't bother myself with their business but that winds me up the wall.

 

[dowie]

Negotiating pay has nothing to do with it? If you negotiate your pay based on X hours, and then once you're happy with what you've been offered and accept it you find out that you can ignore those X hours, because actually you're expected to work Y hours, then it's not really on.

Negotiating pay has everything to do with it - OP isn't paid by the hour he is paid a salary and bonus. An interview is a two way process - you ask about what is expected in the role etc.. and establish what hours you're expected to work - is there shift cover, do you take over from teams in Asia/hand over to teams in NYC, how many people work in those teams, do you have to cover for them occasionally and work anti-social hours too. You ask about the bonus pool, you negotiate the pay you want for that role, you consider the experience you'll get from it etc...

Looking at the standard contract with 37.5 hours on it and assuming it won't be frowned upon to just walk out at 5pm, in a big bank, where the rest of the team works longer, is naive.

If (as you seem to be saying) contracted hours are irrelevant, then why doesn't the OP start leaving an hour early?

because his boss and the rest of the team don't... the contracted hours are irrelevant. If the team sometimes has a 2 hour lunch break in the pub on a friday does the OP turn around and say 'erm sorry guys my contract clearly states that I have one hour for lunch, I won't therefore be joining you'...

 

[ubersonic]

I'm not trying to be a jerk here, but is this a case of the company giving you more work than a person in your role can do in the time allocated. Or a case of you failing to do the work you have been allocated in the time it should take a person in your role?

 

[Haggisman]

Looking at the standard contract with 37.5 hours on it and assuming it won't be frowned upon to just walk out at 5pm, in a big bank, where the rest of the team works longer, is naive.

And the problem is the lack of self-respect and self-worth which those other team members have, meaning that working for free is seen as "the norm". I really have no idea why anyone would want to work in such a toxic environment?

 

[dowie]

And the problem is the lack of self-respect and self-worth which those other team members have, meaning that working for free is seen as "the norm". I really have no idea why anyone would want to work in such a toxic environment?

money

they probably don't see it as working for free as they're not paid by the hour

working longer hours than average is a cultural thing, lots of people in banks are competitive and want a bigger share of bonus pools, increased chances of progression etc...

then again if you're a working to live type person and don't like the work you do then it is a bad choice of career, if you're not good at it and or don't like the hours then better to look elsewhere too

 

[Haggisman]

they probably don't see it as working for free as they're not paid by the hour

working longer hours than average is a cultural thing, lots of people in banks are competitive and want a bigger share of bonus pools, increased chances of progression etc...

Fair enough, I guess I just value my time more than they value theirs

 

[Martini1991]

Sometimes I get the impression some people don't value their free time.