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Scottish weekend ruined :D

D.P. said:
The number of drug users wont change even if the costs are reduced, and what you would see is lower crime to fund drug use, higher quality safer drugs that are more consistent, and ultimately fewer deaths.

We really need to view drug use as a health problem rather than a criminal problem.
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Yeah I did cover that in my first reply. The one you've quoted was aimed at the government just slapping tax ontop. I should get in the habit of quoting the message in reply to even when directly after it sorry.

I'm not 100% convinced we wouldn't see an increase in users. Whilst a decrease in cost is unlikly to increase users as they would already fund themselves at whatever cost, I believe legalising it would see an increase in users. However with it being legalised the majority of dangers of drugs will be neutralised by maintaining standards. It could also have the added benifit of reducing the costs of policing if it wasn't a criminal activity.

Whilst the drugs themselves are damaging hopefully the tax accrued would offset or exceed the costs of treatment.

Really I don't see the argument for not legalising them and pricing the drug dealers out of the market.

(Should add I'm not a drug user. I've smoked weed a couple of times years ago but that was it)
 
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thep02 said:
^^ Or even just a personal choice, a £10 per week heroin habit isn't much of a problem and ibuprofen prices indicate much of the £10 would be tax as gram for gram ibuprofen is more costly to produce and market than heroin.
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I say health problem to put it in the same light as say alcohol.
Small amount of recreational alcohol consumption is perfectly safe and generates decent tax returns, it only becomes a health problem with abusers. Help should be available for all addicts and abusers, with is-user treated as a health problem rather than recreational use treated as a criminal act.

We allow certain drugs like alcohol and nicotine to be used, so why the need to artificially separate other drugs that are provably safer?

Portugal doesn't even tax drugs. They simply don't waste money and resources on trying to block the importers, which is futile and potentially dangerous for the consumers, and imprisoning street dealers which is equal ineffective.

With an open market prices have plummeted, quality is higher, and safety has been improved. The money saved in futile attempts to block is spent on rehabilitation, education and saftey.
 
thep02 said:
Coke's actually about £150 a gram in the UK however this is hidden by how much it is cut/stepped on but smuggled Coke isn't cut on the boat as nobody would bother smuggling the cutting agent which is added here.
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You simply cannot buy uncut product in any capacity. The highest tested purity from the last couple years from seizures was circa 70%. So, even product from the source is no longer "pure". 70% becomes the new benchmark for pure since that is how it comes now.
 
ubern00b said:
You simply cannot buy uncut product in any capacity. The highest tested purity from the last couple years from seizures was circa 70%. So, even product from the source is no longer "pure". 70% becomes the new benchmark for pure since that is how it comes now.
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Yeah but they don't make coke then cut it, they make it the best they can within the difficulties in getting the stuff they need then sell it in its production strength to the UK dealers who then cut it at every juncture right down to the guy who buys an eighth of an ounce but makes 7/8 grams which he sells for £50, cut upon cut upon cut.
 
Mynight said:
Yeah I did cover that in my first reply. The one you've quoted was aimed at the government just slapping tax ontop. I should get in the habit of quoting the message in reply to even when directly after it sorry.

I'm not 100% convinced we wouldn't see an increase in users. Whilst a decrease in cost is unlikly to increase users as they would already fund themselves at whatever cost, I believe legalising it would see an increase in users. However with it being legalised the majority of dangers of drugs will be neutralised by maintaining standards. It could also have the added benifit of reducing the costs of policing if it wasn't a criminal activity.

Whilst the drugs themselves are damaging hopefully the tax accrued would offset or exceed the costs of treatment.

Really I don't see the argument for not legalising them and pricing the drug dealers out of the market.

(Should add I'm not a drug user. I've smoked weed a couple of times years ago but that was it)
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It has been a while since I checked but most of the data for countries and states where drugs/Cannabis have been legalized has shown no significant increase in long term users.

E.g., in Colorado initially a very few additional people tried pot once or twice post legalizing but the total number of regular users is unchanged.

the fact is for drugs like pot everyone has very easy access and anyone who wants t use it already can, so making it legal doesn't open up any more market. With harder drugs most people don't want to take it, and those that do mostly already do take it.

And then it is also about balance of additional users vs increased safety. People using drugs is not a problem. If people die because of whatever the drug was cut with, or the drug is miss-sold, or the potency is different, then people die, and that is a much bigger societal problem than people enjoying drugs safely. Then there is the crime aspect that largely reduces when the drugs are more readily available and prices are lower.

I've been to Lisbon several times and partied it up on the streets with 2euromojitos. On every corner there is a dealer with small baggies of coke, pills, weed etc. Never made me suddenly want to shoot up just because I can legally buy it.
 
ubern00b said:
You simply cannot buy uncut product in any capacity. The highest tested purity from the last couple years from seizures was circa 70%. So, even product from the source is no longer "pure". 70% becomes the new benchmark for pure since that is how it comes now.
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And that is part of the problem. The actual stength of the final rpoduct is largely entirely unknown in the UK market. make it legal and the coke will be imported at closer to 100% and cut down in a more regular and consistent manner
 
Fair points. I guess I should say I'm not expecting a huge uptake in use moreso the few who wouldn't mind trying it but don't want to risk a criminal record.

For example personally I'd like to try cocaine just out of interest but if I were to get caught I imagine a drugs conviction would end my ability to get security clearance thus removing a fair chunk of my income which just isn't worth the risk to satisfy a curiosity.

Sorry what's a euromojito? Googles drawing a blank :(.
 
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Mynight said:
Fair points. I guess I should say I'm not expecting a huge uptake in use moreso the few who wouldn't mind trying it but don't want to risk a criminal record.

For example personally I'd like to try cocaine just out of interest but if I were to get caught I imagine a drugs conviction would end my ability to get security clearance thus removing a fair chunk of my income which just isn't worth the risk to satisfy a curiosity.

Sorry what's a euromojito? Googles drawing a blank :(.
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There was a missing space, 2euro cocktails, I love Lisbon!
 
thep02 said:
Coke's actually about £150 a gram in the UK however this is hidden by how much it is cut/stepped on but smuggled Coke isn't cut on the boat as nobody would bother smuggling the cutting agent which is added here.
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Not these days the country is saturated with the stuff making it cheaper than ever.
 
The way I see it, the security is so lax that the smugglers are willing to risk putting so much product in a single boat.

We should sort it out.
 
Wazz-1 said:
Not these days the country is saturated with the stuff making it cheaper than ever.
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Cheaper and cut to the ninth degree, in the midlands it's possible to get £35 grams but there's not much coke in them and they're not grams.

I have 1 mate with a holiday home in Portugal and 3 who have holiday homes in Spain one of whom is my gf's dad;):cool::cool:
 
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