Landlord Woes...

I would never rent a room in a house where the owner of the house lives in the house. Only rent a room in a house with strangers or friends if you must, that way you are all on the same level. If you rent from a live in landlord then they are going to be a nightmare with restrictions, cleaning and all types of non sense.

I would say that I am not happy with some of their requirements on cooking and what you think is over reacting over a toaster and so on. You would like to give them a months notice. The 1 year contract usually is to your benefit, as long as you give notice then they can't turn take your deposit for leaving early, well as far as i am aware. They may try though.
 
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RoyMi6 said:
As a live in landlord I'm interested to see this law as it's something I've never heard before!

That's a good point about access to your room though, especially if you've signed a Assured Shorthold Tenancy which I think is the wrong thing.

Basically, if you're a "lodger" you get less rights.
https://www.citizensadvice.org.uk/housing/renting-a-home/subletting-and-lodging/lodging/lodging/


http://www.spareroom.co.uk/content/info-flatsharing/rights-for-renters-for-tenants-and-lodgers


If you've signed an Assured Shorthold Tenancy I get the impression they don't know what they're really doing.



By no means is this a law in relation to a lodger though.
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Just from past renting experience if you have an AST you need to have a lock on the door. Especially if you have multiple tenants in a property with their own AST each. The grey is where you have 1 AST for multiple tenants (edit: like students). Will do some digging. I'm pretty sure there is sufficient grounds to kick up a stink in any case... I'd certainly insist on a lockable door if I were to cohabit with a stranger!
 
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Always go back to the contract you have with them...

Does it say you can't cook X, Y, and Z? Does it say you can't leave appliances plugged in? Does it say the toaster lever has to be at a certain position? If not, do as you wish - but also, don't get upset if they unplug things etc...

PS you are getting mugged off!
 
wndsr said:
I took a job in Edinburgh in November last year and moved into a flat that has a resident landlord. At the time it seemed like the best option given that I had barely any time to find somewhere to live. ... Would appreciate some advice on how you would tackle this situation. I want to try and keep it civil in order to get my £700 deposit back, but I fear that because I signed some sort of 12 month contract that they'll make it hard.
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I've had some experience with this sort of thing and I would like to add my voice to some of the other posters who have replied along similar lines.

They should not have given you an AST agreement as legally you are a Lodger not a Tenant. If they know anything about property renting law then they must know this. (Technically, if the AST is really active, then you have exclusive possession of the property and they are violating their own agreement by living there too!) The landlord also has no right to tie you into a contract for 12 months if you are a lodger. Most lodgers licenses have a clause saying that the landlord can keep part, or all, of the deposit if the lodger moves out at short notice causing them to lose rent before a replacement lodger moves in. However, since you did not sign a lodgers license agreement they cannot enforce that against you.

The most moral approach would be to pay the rent on the next rent day (after giving them one month's written notice to quit the tenancy before midnight on the previous day). If they start threatening to keep your deposit don't argue with them but tell them you expect them to return it. When you move out leave the place clean and tidy. It's probably best to take photos of your room before you leave and get a reliable witness to have a look around too. (Don't mention that you know their AST agreement is a sham.) After you've moved out write to them politely asking for the deposit to be returned. If they don't do it within a week, write them a "letter before action" giving them 14 days to comply or else you will take them to County Court. If they still refuse to do it then start proceedings in the Small Claims Court against them. In England you can start the ball rolling using: https://www.moneyclaim.gov.uk/web/mcol/welcome Scotland may have a different system, (but Scottish law gives tenants/lodgers more rights than English law does as Scots are generally more left-wing).

In the end I cannot see how a reasonable judge could find in their favour given that the AST agreement they made you sign is totally inappropriate for use with a live-in landlord:

'4.2 that the Tenant paying the Rent and performing the obligations on the part of the Tenant may quietly possess and enjoy the Premises during the tenancy without any lawful interruption from the Landlord or any person claiming under or in trust for the Landlord'

(Legally the 'Premises' cannot just be a double room unless it contains everything you need to live there without accessing the rest of the property.) You could sue them for living in the property while you were living there given that you had to share a kitchen etc with them and the whole basis of an Assured Shorthold Tenancy is that it gives the tenant exclusive possession of the rented property during the Term. Unless you have given written permission for the landlord to live in the Premises too then they cannot defend against that claim. There was a case in York a few years ago where a landlord had to pay several thousand pounds in fines and court costs because his tenants (on an AST) sued him for coming into their rented house numerous times without giving them any advance warning, let alone asking for their permission.

The security deposit does not have to be protected by a resident landlord, however, they are breaching their own contract by not doing it and I doubt that the judge would be impressed by that either.
 
I would just like to make a final point about that AST agreement. This clause:

'6.1 The Landlord may bring the tenancy to an end at any time before the expiry of the Term (but not earlier than one months from the Commencement Date or the Date of this Agreement whichever shall be the later) by giving to the Tenant not less than fourteen days written notice stating that the Landlord requires possession of the Premises.'

Is a shocker! Even a standard one-sided Lodger Agreement would give both parties the right to terminate the tenancy with one month's written notice. To put that clause into an AST agreement which ties the tenant into a tenancy for 12 months is a sick joke. That agreement would be unenforceable in court. Just make sure that the landlord does not realise you know the agreement is crap because he/she might get you to sign a Lodger Agreement before you want to move out.

Personally, I would be tempted to withhold the last month's rent, but that could quickly get nasty if the landlord has access to all your possessions. If the Police are called to an altercation they are most likely to take the side of the resident landlord (even though you were mistakenly given an AST) and tell you to leave the property or be arrested. (Unless you had some hidden camera footage of the landlord doing things they should not be doing in your room.)
 
Thanks again for the responses. Sounds like I have a fair bit in my favour here if it were to ever get ugly, which I'm hoping it won't.

I got back yesterday to find my bathroom had been entered again with my toothbrush charger unplugged. Weird. This morning I received an email from them overnight.

Hi Josh,

Just to reiterate please leave your bathroom window open when we're in the flat and during the night to allow fresh air into the room.
Can you please make sure the shower head,taps and plug and shower door and bath is thoroughly scrubbed with a good bathroom cleaner such as Cillit Bang or Cif at least once a week.
Lastly I didn't mention earlier if cooking fish especially smoked fish please use the oven as opposed to the microwave as the smell doesn't go it stays in the microwave for days.

Thanks in advance name 1 and name 2.
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Edit: Some complete weapon has also opened my bathroom window last night meaning it's now like a freezer.
 
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Bathroom window open overnight is a bit odd... unless... do you take shower or bath in the evening instead of the morning?

Most places, especially older ones - need good ventilation in a bathroom to avoid mould growth.

Unplugging your toothbrush is weird... your own dedicated bathroom? Not the/a shared one?



I can see the logic in them asking you not to heat up fish in microwave... you'd stink the whole place out for days... I'd ask you not to do that too if you were living with me :p Don't you have a clue how to cook anyway? Microwaving fish? really????


Them entering the room that you're renting (and bathroom) is not really on.

But... for the shared spaces... you are renting a room in someone else's home and using their belongings while you're there. If they have certain ways of doing things or have instructions on how to use the equipment... perhaps you could have some consideration for them and listen? I assume the 10 minute rant was because they had told you what to do with the toaster more than once...
 
wndsr said:
Thanks again for the responses. Sounds like I have a fair bit in my favour here if it were to ever get ugly, which I'm hoping it won't.

I got back yesterday to find my bathroom had been entered again with my toothbrush charger unplugged. Weird. This morning I received an email from them overnight.



Edit: Some complete weapon has also opened my bathroom window last night meaning it's now like a freezer.
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Lol at them telling you to leave the window open overnight and telling you when and how to clean the your bathroom! They are checking up on your when your not there and charing you £700 p/m for the privilege.

I would personally find somewhere else, give them one months notice, and tell them to keep the deposit as payment for that month.
 
ci_newman said:
Those all sound like perfectly reasonable requests to me.
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It's reasonable if your living at home with your parents and not paying any rent.... Why should he suffer a freezing cold room at night ? He is paying for the room and bathroom, its his space, as long as its not getting damaged then they need to keep out.
 
Whilst the landlord sounds like a tool and clearly the OP is at this point needlessly worrying (just tell them you are moving on - why would there be any issues with that?) the whole window and toothbrush things are hardly unreasonable. Toothbrush chargers left plugged in use electricity and bathrooms need airing. I do both of these things myself. Not sure about the toaster thing.... that's a bit odd, but hardly ball-breaking to put a handle up, is it?

Just man up and tell them you are giving notice. Only then do you need to get concerned about it if they try and kick up a stink, but at this point there is no indication at all that this would be the case. If they try it on with the deposit, deal with it then instead of making a massive issue over something that might not even occur.
 
wndsr said:
I got back yesterday to find my bathroom had been entered again with my toothbrush charger unplugged. Weird. This morning I received an email from them overnight. Edit: Some complete weapon has also opened my bathroom window last night meaning it's now like a freezer.
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It's very bad practice for a landlord to be going into a lodger's bedroom/bathroom on a daily basis without seeking agreement from the lodger in advance. Your girlfriend or a relative might be visiting and they might be undressed or using the shower or toilet when the landlord goes in. Even with the agreement of the lodger it is counterproductive behaviour which damages the landlord/lodger relationship.

Although, the landlord has exclusive possession of the lodger's room, the lodger still has a reasonable expectation of privacy and security. Everyone is entitled to those things unless they are in a prison cell! (In your case, it is totally unacceptable because they used a crudely modified AST agreement which guarantees you will be able to enjoy your rented premises without any interruptions from the landlord.)

Landlord said:
Just to reiterate please leave your bathroom window open when we're in the flat and during the night to allow fresh air into the room.
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This is unreasonable. They cannot expect you to leave your bathroom window open whenever they are there and all night. That is not justifiable if they just want condensation in the bathroom to dry out, (leaving the window open for 3 hours, or so, after taking a shower should do the job). The night time temperatures have been so low recently that the bathroom will be very cold in the mornings and noise from outside may disturb you while you are in your room. If they are so concerned about keeping the bathroom dry then they should install an extractor fan which vents to the outside.

Landlord said:
Can you please make sure the shower head,taps and plug and shower door and bath is thoroughly scrubbed with a good bathroom cleaner such as Cillit Bang or Cif at least once a week.
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Again, this is unreasonable. For an AST, they simply cannot order you to do frequent cleaning during the Term of the tenancy. They can only expect you to return the bedroom/bathroom in the same condition they were in at the beginning of the tenancy. (The walls could be covered in fungus during the Term but if you disinfect and repaint them before the tenancy ends then the landlord cannot justify deducting any money from your deposit.)

However, you are legally a lodger, (as no AST was created since the landlord was already living at the address when you moved into it), but it is still unacceptable for the landlord to expect you to thoroughly scrub your entire shower/bath and their accessories at least once a week with cleaning products nominated by him. (Even if they are prepared to supply those cleaning products to you for free.) It is simply not a reasonable requirement and no experienced landlord would do it. If they feel it is so important then they can do it themselves.

Landlord said:
Lastly I didn't mention earlier if cooking fish especially smoked fish please use the oven as opposed to the microwave as the smell doesn't go it stays in the microwave for days.
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Again, for an AST (which they have supposedly given you) this requirement is not acceptable. For a lodger using a shared kitchen, it is acceptable, but is rather petty.

Given that they have violated two important requirements of their own rental agreement I cannot see how any judge could insist you live there for 12 months before you can get your deposit back. In the meantime, it could be a good idea to put a hidden camera in your bedroom to see if the landlord is doing anything inappropriate when he goes in there. If he is looking at/touching your personal possessions then a Judge will take a very dim view of him if the matter ever goes to Court. Also, having a record of how frequently he has been going into your room could be useful in Court, given your rental agreement's demands on the landlord's conduct.

If I were you I would give one month's written notice to quit and find better accommodation. £700 per month for that place is daylight robbery anyway. They clearly couldn't care less about making you feel comfortable or respecting your privacy.
 
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