Please don't forget its VE day today!

scorza said:
only no-one can tell me what we won?
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We didn't win any thing, you are right.
The war brought together a European government, and because of it we no longer control our own country.
We won the battle, but we lost the war.

And here we are today, remembering the millions of lives lost to stop a fascist government takeover, and we still ended up with one.
 
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scorza said:
So just to be clear, VE day isn't about celebrating the end of the war, otherwise they'd celebrate it in Germany too. It's about celebrating the end of the war and the UK being a putative winner, only no-one can tell me what we won? Only what we lost (men, money, influence).
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Do you truly have no idea of what the victors gained in World War II?
Freedom from the yoke of Nazi tranny?
Military stability across a broad range of localised countries, which lasts to tis day, and if anything is stronger now than it was 70 years ago.
'Just to be clear'
You have no idea what winning the war gained?
'Just to be clear'
 
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Both Grand Parents fought in WW2 though I only ever got to meet one of them.

All I have of the other one is a photograph and some buttons from his uniform, his medals were stolen when his house was burgled and he apparently didn't talk about the war much. I only found out little bits from family, he was reluctant to join up as he was a Christian and didn't like the idea of having to kill people, he volunteered regardless and ended up getting commissioned, served in north africa and played a vital role in the invasion of Italy. Unfortunately he passed away from cancer before I was born, really wish I'd been able to meet him :(
 
I'm doing my bit, the Local Royal British legion club & branch has organized parties this weekend for both local Kids & Veterans, I'm going to help over the two days.
 
do_ron_ron said:
On the day we defeated a far right Govt, Britain elected the most right wing Govt in Modern history.
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you don't think Thatcher was very right wing then?

Cameron is rather liberal in comparison, a bit too liberal for some old school Tories and will have a difficult time keeping right wing, eurosceptic backbenchers in line
 
scorza said:
We had those rights in the UK (I take the second to be the right to free speech) prior to WW2.

All I'm saying is that WW2 was a disaster for this country, and it was a war we certainly didn't "win". Yes we should remember the fallen - the eleventh hour of the eleventh day of the eleventh month is set aside for that. VE day is more celebratory and I don't really see the point of celebrating.
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And if we'd lost we would in all liklihood have lost the right to free speech or had it severly curtailed.

No we didn't "win" the war but when we should have capitulated and made terms, cut off from the tatters of our Empire by supurbly orchestrated blockade masterminded by Admiral Dönitz (Who in turn was forced to oversee the surrender of Germany as President upon Hitler's death) and his U-Boat fleet, our factories, dockyards, airfields and infrastructure under attack day after day by the Luftwaffe; we stood and kept a light for liberty burning in Europe that thanks to determination and sacrifice of the British people from the bottom to the top and with the help of allies became an inferno that drove back across Europe just in time to stop a juggernaut sweeping from the East threatening to replace one tyranny with another. Yes we paid a cost but when I think what the world would be like now without that I think the cost was worth it.

Also who said anything about celebrations? Leave that word to the jingoist press, today is officially the 70th Anniversary of VE Day Commemorations, it's a very different word with a very different meaning.
 
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Hikari Kisugi said:
Do you truly have no idea of what the victors gained in World War II?
Freedom from the yolk of Nazi tranny?
Military stability across a broad range of localised countries, which lasts to tis day, and if anything is stronger now than it was 70 years ago.
'Just to be clear'
You have no idea what winning the war gained?
'Just to be clear'
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Err, yoke I think.... ;)

yoke.jpg



yolk.jpg


Just to be clear...
 
scorza said:
So just to be clear, VE day isn't about celebrating the end of the war, otherwise they'd celebrate it in Germany too. It's about celebrating the end of the war and the UK being a putative winner, only no-one can tell me what we won? Only what we lost (men, money, influence).
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I think this episode of The World at War attempts to cover some of that (skip to 44:15 for one historian's opinion!)

Episode 25 - The Reckoning
 
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Hikari Kisugi said:
Do you truly have no idea of what the victors gained in World War II?
Freedom from the yoke of Nazi tranny?
Military stability across a broad range of localised countries, which lasts to tis day, and if anything is stronger now than it was 70 years ago.
'Just to be clear'
You have no idea what winning the war gained?
'Just to be clear'
Click to expand...

Well freedom from the Nazis is what the countries we liberated got, it's pretty much accepted that Britain could have easy avoided war with Nazi Germany. I'm not saying we shouldn't have gone to war, and I'm certainly not seeking to diminish the contribution made by Britain and Commonwealth forces in WW2 who did what they always do - fought hard, won battles, suffered and, died. Maybe it's just other events happening today, but celebrating it doesn't seem right.
 
Luke said:
Same here, my grandfather never spoke about it simply stating he was in the Navy. It was only after he died and I was looking through the old photo albums that I found this:




Yes, he was in the Navy, he just never told us he was a Marine at the Normandy landings...
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That brought a lump to my throat.

Rear Admiral Fayshun sr. RN Rtd. worked in a munitions factory during WW2, and despite it being a reserved occupation, he signed up to join the Royal Navy to fight the war. We always joke that Hitler gave up because he'd heard my dad was coming... He was still an apprentice when the war ended, but he's seen action on other fronts.
 
scorza said:
We had those rights in the UK (I take the second to be the right to free speech) prior to WW2.
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They had those rights in Poland too and look how that worked out for them prior to VE day. Another stupid comment.

Do boxers celebrate when they win a fight or if don't get hit? Loss is a part of any conflict. You only have to ask the people who have been in one to understand that. Doesn't mean you haven't won though it means it came at cost a cost worth remembering with an end worth celebrating.
 
I remember 20 years ago tomorrow eating a VE day 50th anniversary cookie from Eccles in Oswestry and wondering what it was all about. Mental innit.

I'd like to think that since then I've educated myself on the matter, unlike quite a few it seems.

RIP to the fallen in the name of true freedom, and a happy VE day
 
I read a difficult to stomach article in a French newspaper this morning, with a huge photospread of VE day on the Champs Elysee back in 1945.

It went on and on about the great French victory, and how they had liberated all from the Nazis, with not a mention of the Allies.
 
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