There are definitely trust issues with labour after last time. Ed was not convincing us otherwise. The jobs market, investment and recovery has given confidence in conservatives. This was missing from labour. With SNP holding the reign in Scotland we probably won't see a labour government for a long time. The next leader is already doomed before they have started.
Poll: Should Labour turn left or right?
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Soldato
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Blair has surfaced yet again to offer his advice to Labour, suggesting that they erred in moving back towards their traditional supporters who may in fact no longer exist and that they should become more akin to the Liberal Democrats.
Mandelson (aka The Prince of Darkness) has offered much the same advice.
Alan Johnson has said that "Labour must return to 'aspirational Blair years'" whatever that means, presumably further Bank deregulation and more PFI?
Blair has devoted his time since leaving Government to satisfying his "Aspirations" and Mandelson is of course remembered for the egalitarian and typically Capitalist observation that New Labour were "intensely relaxed about people getting filthy rich".
Frankly, as the British public come to accept that "There is no such thing as Society" it is difficult to see how Labour can ever return to power without becoming a Mk. 2 Tory party - depressing
Any Labour Party that is seen to turn to The Toxic Twins for advice will remain unelectable.
I agree that it's a going to be a hard, long road to claw those seats back from the SNP, whoever they choose.
However, I liked that they were offering a different narrative and vision to the Conservatives. The big mistake was making a hash of explaining their vision clearly and not taking responsibility for the economy in a nuanced way i.e. they were blaming it all on the global crash.
I feel they should have said they did make significant mistakes which contributed to the factors behind the crash, but they acted swiftly and decisively to limit the damage by bailing out the banks etc. and that the Conservatives and Lib Dems are skewing reality when they make out it was all Labour's fault; it was only partly Labour's fault, but they feel mortified by the effect on people's lives and have learnt from the mistakes that were made and take responsibility for the situation.
Then have a much greater emphasis on how they were going to fix things and make sure this never happens again i.e. reform the banking sector and keep more money aside in reserve and show passion when talking about this.
Lastly, Liam Byrne should have been publicly mauled and sacked for the note he left with its blase attitude.
They could have promised the moon on a stick but frankly nobody trust labour with two coins to rub together and they had a very odd leader, who was pretty much unelectable.
They need to change all the faces and instead of just saying everything's c rap to anything the tories do over the next 5 years be constructive instead.
They need to change all the faces and instead of just saying everything's c rap to anything the tories do over the next 5 years be constructive instead.
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What is a member of the middle class
Why, don't you know?
Soldato
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Labour needs to stop being a party of millionaires and posh boys.
Labour were way too arrogant,
I think England wants Tory light which they have with Cameron.
The left are a minority but won't face up to it and shout and protest instead.
The Tories will need to make a right mess of things and labour completely change if labour are going to win the next election.
I think England wants Tory light which they have with Cameron.
The left are a minority but won't face up to it and shout and protest instead.
The Tories will need to make a right mess of things and labour completely change if labour are going to win the next election.
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What is a member of the middle class
Could be wrong here, but I thought that middle class were mid-£40k range (bit higher than that in London), living comfortably but still fairly ordinary lives. Teachers, project managers, NHS band 7, IT consultant etc.
Upper class would be titles e.g. Professor, Lord, Lady, Earl etc.
Working class are £13k office monkeys like myself.
There is no class in my eyes, I treat everyone the same regardless of status or money, it means nothing to me.
As I just said it means nothing to myself, but it looks like I've been put in the category of middle class then lol.
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Of course there are classes in society. You should extend common courtesy to everyone, until they prove themselves unworthy.
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I suspect there's a little more to it than just income.
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Labour need to get back to looking after the "common man" not pandering to every needy cause in an effort to gain popularist votes from a multiple of minority groups. It would be far easier to appeal to the majority stuck in the middle (and cheaper financially) than trying to appease all these little groups.
Labour just let the Tories say what they liked about the economy without pointing out what was the actual event who and how created the tipping point. And therewithin lies the answer Labour don't want to upset them because they like the Tories and the Liberals have their interests at heart because they are all so alike.
The Labour I knew as a kid has long gone. And maybe that was needed but an awful lot has been lost in the process.
You know you read these forums and the majority of people actually agree on pretty much everything when you come down to it and an actual consensus and a party that represents that wouldn't be too difficult.
We all seem to want to help the vulnerable, we all seem to want to have decent health care, we all seem to not want to get involved in wars, we all seem to what to have a fair but firm judicial system that gives people a chance at coming back but not accepting those that will never or chose not to take that path.
The problem is for reasons of politics Labour want to apply the privileges we earn and all expect to everyone irrespective of their contribution and the Tories seen to believe we are all capable of earning those privileges without problems.
Labour just let the Tories say what they liked about the economy without pointing out what was the actual event who and how created the tipping point. And therewithin lies the answer Labour don't want to upset them because they like the Tories and the Liberals have their interests at heart because they are all so alike.
The Labour I knew as a kid has long gone. And maybe that was needed but an awful lot has been lost in the process.
You know you read these forums and the majority of people actually agree on pretty much everything when you come down to it and an actual consensus and a party that represents that wouldn't be too difficult.
We all seem to want to help the vulnerable, we all seem to want to have decent health care, we all seem to not want to get involved in wars, we all seem to what to have a fair but firm judicial system that gives people a chance at coming back but not accepting those that will never or chose not to take that path.
The problem is for reasons of politics Labour want to apply the privileges we earn and all expect to everyone irrespective of their contribution and the Tories seen to believe we are all capable of earning those privileges without problems.
TBH I'm not sure even Tony Blair (when he was popular) could have won this election. Losing Scotland to the SNP was to a degree inevitable. While it's possible to win without the Scottish seats, fear of a Labour/SNP coalition was the death blow. A lot of people in England were very worried about the impact that coalition could have on the country.
Defeating the SNP will be key to Labour returning to power. I'm not sure how they do that, but until it happens it won't matter if they go left, right or round in circles (unless the Tories mess up big time).
Defeating the SNP will be key to Labour returning to power. I'm not sure how they do that, but until it happens it won't matter if they go left, right or round in circles (unless the Tories mess up big time).
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Soldato
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It's because they moved away from all that new labour garbage that I and many others came back and voted for them this time, so if they move to the centre/right they're dead to me.
The problem they have is how do they simultaneously move to the left to regain the Scotch vote whilst trying to move to the centre in the rest of the country to win voters back from the Tories/kippers.
Blair and the rest of his cronies should **** off back under their rocks.
The problem they have is how do they simultaneously move to the left to regain the Scotch vote whilst trying to move to the centre in the rest of the country to win voters back from the Tories/kippers.
Blair and the rest of his cronies should **** off back under their rocks.
Lol, they moved to the left for that reason and still lost 40 seats.
The SNP is a wholly different problem, Scotland doesn't care for English centric parties any more.
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I tend to agree that Labour is probably doomed to become an historical irrelevance.
The Scots will have their wishes fulfilled and everything will go swimmingly for them - for a while - until they discover the law of unintended consequences.
It is only a matter of time before IDS decides that there should be "No representation without taxation" and the poor will be denied the right to interfere in the smooth accumulation of wealth by the Tory "elite".
The poor will live in ghettos and the rich will live in gated enclosures with armed guards and travel around in armoured vehicles (cf the USA).
Eventually the country will go into meltdown and the Chinese and Indians will come in from time to time to overthrow some corrupt and despotic regime run by one of the many offspring of Soddem Johnsain.
The Scots will have their wishes fulfilled and everything will go swimmingly for them - for a while - until they discover the law of unintended consequences.
It is only a matter of time before IDS decides that there should be "No representation without taxation" and the poor will be denied the right to interfere in the smooth accumulation of wealth by the Tory "elite".
The poor will live in ghettos and the rich will live in gated enclosures with armed guards and travel around in armoured vehicles (cf the USA).
Eventually the country will go into meltdown and the Chinese and Indians will come in from time to time to overthrow some corrupt and despotic regime run by one of the many offspring of Soddem Johnsain.