This.
I would rather University be free for those who go. But those who go be the best of the best.
None of this '50% of the population has to be degree educated' crap.
All we have done is create a mass of disillusioned graduates.
Universities are Free again in Germany
- Thread starter Freakbro
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This.
I would rather University be free for those who go. But those who go be the best of the best.
None of this '50% of the population has to be degree educated' crap.
All we have done is create a mass of disillusioned graduates.
Soldato
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Du bist having eine chuckle, innit bruv.
Soldato
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And abandoned eduction in favour of "teaching to test" which puts even more pressure on 1st year degree students.
I concur.
100%. Education is just remembering for the imminent test.
Why we have so many modular based examinations. Couple months teaching. Test. Couple months teaching. Test. Makes everyone look brighter; and gives you more opportunities to re-take if you failed an exam. Compared to when you had just one exam at the end of the year.
In my job I sometimes take interviews. I interview various people with various levels of education. On paper most of these people blow me out the water. A and A*s all across the board, some have degrees.
(I left school with 12 GCSE's A-C and went college; maths C, P.E A, Economics B, Physics D... no degree... I am 26.)
But some of these candidates can't even string a sentence together, and the IQ test scores are horrific... does make you wonder.
Nope. And our Democracy is moribund. Conservative, Labour, whoever is in power are all neoliberal monetarists. We're effectively governed and have decisions made for us by large corporations and pension funds, who have nothing to gain by any notion of national interest or even what's best for society.
Can we turn a profit on it? is the overbearing policy guideline.
Of course, spending on education makes good economic sense, but the ROI isn't quick enough. As you said, we don't look to the future.
The only reason we get tuition fees is because Oxford and Cambridge want them so they can compete with the elite US universities to be "the best". If you look at the list of the best global universities, there are plenty of good universities in Germany, but not many elite universities. I guess this is because in Germany it's less important about which university you went to and what you actually achieve in the world of work and the country benefits of a result.
Soldato
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So hang on, they the degree in English and anyone from anywhere can go there, for free?
How on earth does that work when you are paying out for all those yanks going there for education then?
How on earth does that work when you are paying out for all those yanks going there for education then?
Soldato
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Hopefully, the system will have changed for the better when your children go through it.
Both my daughters are at university and the first term was an utter shock as they had to think for themselves after being spoon-fed all through (a very good) secondary school.
Deleted member 66701
Deleted member 66701
Because, in terms of growth and GDP, the value derived from conferring those degrees is greater than the cost in conferring the degrees in the first instance.
Soldato
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Even for people who might not actually ever go back there after they have got their degree?
If you read the OP it states that all they need is 40% of the foreign students to stay for 5 years, using their skills in employment, to offset the cost. Which I imagine is easily obtainable since people will have set down roots, made contacts etc during their time studying for their Bachelors and/or Masters degrees. As this is for free Masters education as well.
As with almost everything, what should be an obvious policy is not implemented because of the plebs in this country. Welfare is great, gets abused. Free university education so no one is held back based on their finances. Naturally a good thing until we decide that everyone needs a degree. You can't have the idea of degrees leading to a better job when half of degrees are completely unnecessary and leave you in a less capable state than you would be if you went straight into industry.
I would assume that the thinking is that a lot of foreign students will stay on and get a job in Germany. Berlin is already the start-up capital of Europe and no doubt wants to stay that way.
Soldato
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Well there you go... I should learn to read the OP in full, instead of just parts of it. Just 40% over 5 years seems doable.
It works this way in Scotland too... at least if you're from the EU but, importantly, are not English or Welsh.
Scottish tuition fees for Scottish students are paid for by Student Awards Agency for Scotland (SAAS). However, under EU regulation, it's illegal to discriminate against nationals from other EU countries, so the SAAS also has to cough up for the fees of students from the continent who have accepted a place at a Scottish university.
Bizarrely, though, this doesn't extend to residents of England or Wales. I'd like to see someone challenge this in court, as I don't see how it's not discriminatory.
Funnily enough, Northern Irish students can get around this by exploiting a loophole. Normally they're lumped as fee-paying students along with the English and Welsh. However, all Northern Irish citizens are entitled to request an Irish passport (as part of the Belfast Treaty)... which makes them exempt from fees. There have been many cases where Northern Irish students were applying for Irish passports simply to avoid the fees
