I need advice, Job Centre has just stuffed me...

Vidar

Vidar

Vidar

Soldato
Joined
18 Dec 2008
Posts
6,702
Location
Liverpool
Before I get into what's happened today I just need to clarify that I am a long term sufferer of depression and while I've been feeling much better lately that it's because circumstances have been favourable.

For the past seven months I have been doing permitted work alongside claiming employment and support allowance, which although I've found difficult and challenging at times due to my condition I've stuck it out and managed, things as a result have changed for the better slowly but surely. I've had a bit more money which has relieved a lot of pressure and worry from my life and have actively been trying to better myself.

After having a work capability assessment the other week, low and behold I've been declared fit for work which isn't surprising as the only mental health condition checked for are severe learning difficulties, yes I can make a cup of tea myself etc but depression isn't a learning difficulty.

So I've now been turfed onto Job seekers allowance which is an entirely different animal... I'm not allowed permitted work alongside my benefit, on JSA it's now very much one or the other.

Essentially even though I'd be doing 13hrs a week which I found manageable I'd be earning double the JSA payment so I wouldn't be able to claim. That means no more housing benefit, council tax benefit or slightly reduced child maintenance payments. I wouldn't be able to claim working tax credits because I wouldn't be doing enough hours and even if I was I believe because my kids don't currently live with me I'd be earning too much. That's a moot point currently as I can't find 30+ hours at the moment anyway.

Please believe me, I would much rather work than claim benefit but having suffered with severe depression for so long I find I have to be careful to avoid slipping back and as pathetic as that may sound to many of you doing too much is one of the key triggers that sets me off.

Now to make matters more confusing, I'm going through a court case in regards to my kids that should be settled in mid August to determine where the kids are to live and its very much looking like my kids will be coming to live with me (Mum has breached every court order for the past 2.5 years) so any job I would be doing would have to fit entirely around them. The other aspect being that I was planning to return to education and do an access course in September as one of the major things that triggers my depression is a seeming failure to achieve anything important.

Because of being dumped on to JSA and the differences between that and ESA everything I've worked hard to achieve over the past 7 months is now being taken away from me. I was really starting to feel better in myself and was looking forward to the future. Now I feel abysmally low and terrified I'll end up right back at square one, contemplating suicide again... only not going through with it cause of the thought of my kids, it's only been a matter of hours and I don't want to be melodramatic but I've already had dark thoughts and feel myself slipping into a depressed state.

The prospect of either struggling to exist on £70 a week or losing out on being able to have my kids live with me and try to better myself and finally achieve something is terrifying.

Guys I really don't know what to do for the best or if there's any options I've not considered I can't seem to think straight about what to do, I just feel like all doors are being slammed shut in my face.
 
I understand if you are on ESA or income support or came off it or something like that you could claim disability tax credits, but you need to be working 16 hours.
From what I read you can go self employed and work those extra hours, as long as you can find a way to make up those extra hours.
I read about that's how those homeless people selling that London newspaper survive, you don't need to make a profit or even get paid as long as you can show you worked those hours under self employed that's all you need.
 
You've got two kids whom you care for greatly. You've definitely achieved something important!
 
The benefits system in this country is an utterly confusing mess.

If you're working less than 16 hours a week that should mean you're able to claim Income Support which should help top up your earnings to some extent. This may also mean your entitled to some other concessions such as housing benefit - I'm really not an expert, but a quick bit of GoogleFoo has told me this. Its something you may want to look into.

With regards to the depression - you've just had a massive smack in the balls, anybody would be feeling like crap right now, you're just going to be feeling it worse than most with everything that you have going on. As somebody that has had issues with depression before when things go wrong I'm utterly inconsolable for 24-48 hours and then once my brain starts to process it I gradually come around, I think one of the keys for me is that I (like you) know what my triggers are, so when I feel myself heading that way I work to convince myself that it is just the depression talking and that there is always a way out.

You've taken some big strides recently with your health, that is a big positive and something you can reflect on. You might feel utterly screwed at the moment, but there is a solution, when you've had time to reflect and contemplate then you will find out.
 
Hi Vidar,
You're panicking too early about this.
You only just got this information and situation put on you. There's plenty of time for this to work out for the best.
Things happen for a reason. And you sound like a really great person who just wants the best for those around him.

Keep strong.
 
surely you can still get housing benefit, plenty of housing benefits claimants are in work?

JSA is understandable, you've got a job that pays more than JSA so that isn't necessarily unfair.
 
The only thing you have to know about just about anyone running any part of the benefits agency, be it the job centre or those clowns that manage ESA, is none of them give a **** about you or your future. As far as they are concerned, you are an expense that needs to be cut and they don't give a damn about what that means for you.

However, forewarned is forearmed, as they say. You have to approach them as an obstacle to overcome rather than one you must submit to.

You must not see this change as having your hard work and effort over the last 7 months thrown away. You've just got comfortable with the way you were engaging with the benefits agency, perhaps even a little complacent with your circumstances? Now it all seems so terrible because someone else has just made a big decision for your life that you have no control over. So, you have to take the power back and get out there and do whatever it is you need to do to make the things you want to happen in your life come to fruition.

From personal experience I'd say if you can get work that keeps you out of the clutches of the jobcentre, even if it means having your income subsidised to some extent, then do it. Not only will you feel you are doing something that you had a stake in choosing, you will have the satisfaction of being useful to yourself, and not to some poxy bean-counter at the jobcentre.
The biggest problem with the benefits agency is that no-one tells you the information you need to know about what you are entitled to - you have to know the right questions to ask in order to get the answer you need.... like will smith in I-Robot, talking to that dead guys hologram disk thing.

I know it feels rough and that you're taking a kicking, but the only way you're not going to have to put up with their arse gravy is if you make sure you have as little to do with them as possible.


If the worst comes to the worst, you'll end up on the welfare to work scheme, working for your dole for 30 hours a week. If that's the case, try and make sure you choose the placement (I volunteered at the PDSA for 3 months) and not let them push you into something you'll hate.
The trend is to start making these decisions before the jobcentre forces theirs upon you.

What is it that you currently do?
 
Sorry , not had chance to read all this as i'm on my way out.
so just something quick.

I had my ESA stopped - i appealed and it took over a year for them finally to sort it all out (i lost the appeal but was well enough to return to work by then anyway.)

Might be worth appealing to give you some extra time?
 
Thanks everyone for taking the time to respond.

I am doing my best to see the potential positives in this but the thing is I understand that I was lucky to be able to claim a benefit and work just enough so that I wasn't under a ton of pressure. I worked as a doorman at a very cushy pub with a strong team so it's not been difficult. Besides if I've been feeling very low I've simply not worked due not wanting to be a liability.

The thing is I have been having a much better time of it lately, all my plans though hinged on being able to keep going as I was for another couple of months, then I'd either have my kids living with me and going to college or being at college and fitting a job around that and around my kids.

The thing is one of my biggest triggers to becoming depressed is monotony, I know everyone finds there job monotonous at times but for me once it starts, I get more and more depressed to point where suicidal thoughts run through my head and I literally can't get out of bed etc. I don't want to be like this ever again and being able to go an achieve something I know I'm capable of is a huge step in the right direction.

Even doing my 13 hours can get to be too much sometimes, and the only time I'm not getting that way is when I'm learning something new which is why I'm desperate to return to education. The fact is until August when I find out if my kids are coming to live with me (This on going court battle and not seeing my kids for extended periods of time, 6 months now this time around.... is my biggest single trigger) or not I can't seem to make any plans... either way it feels like a rock and a hard place and as a single parent I'm not going to be able to work, study full time and raise two small kids (ages 6 and 4) on my own.... Something will have to give and the problem is I don't want to give up on any of it....

Being on ESA made everything so much easier, I had a base income that was supplemented by what I earned and had the freedom to both look after my kids and study in September. JSA is going to get in my way, you can study up until 16hrs a week but if you don't go for jobs you get sanctioned, if you choose education of employment you get sanctioned if they send you on placement and you can't go you get sanctioned.

Guys I feel like I'm in a deep dark hole right now, I can't see the way forward and just really want to go to bed and stay there.
 
Should still be able to claim housing benefits on JSA just they don't make it easy for you to claim it :S

JSA/Job Centre even more so than other benefits is there to manage unemployment, not to help people back into work a subtle but significant difference if your actually having to depend on the system.
 
Aeleys said:
Long term sufferer of depression also, not having to go to the job center helped A LOT.

Get a job, trust me!
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I know everyone is different. But for me being at work is essential. If only for mental distraction. This week has been a horrendous week. But I'm glad of it in my situation (which I know you know vidar)

It must be really hard if work makes you worse.
Do you think there is another Job that wouldn't make you feel worse?

Even if it's a mean to an end to help see your kids? Worth a look? :-)
 
billysielu said:
jobs exist, find one and do it
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useful smart ass answer, probably not the kind of advise you'd give out in real life i'll bet.......but it's plenty ok (safe) to dish it out from the safety of a keyboard. :rolleyes:

Vidar said:
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hey man, honestly didn't know the troubles you've been having. can't offer much advise, but i'll be on WT TS later if you need to vent.
 
Vidar said:
Even doing my 13 hours can get to be too much sometimes, and the only time I'm not getting that way is when I'm learning something new which is why I'm desperate to return to education. The fact is until August when I find out if my kids are coming to live with me (This on going court battle and not seeing my kids for extended periods of time, 6 months now this time around.... is my biggest single trigger) or not I can't seem to make any plans... either way it feels like a rock and a hard place and as a single parent I'm not going to be able to work, study full time and raise two small kids (ages 6 and 4) on my own.... Something will have to give and the problem is I don't want to give up on any of it....
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Have you considered something like van driving - fair few openings (not all involving being customer/public facing) if you have a license, with a range of hours, etc. which could potentially let you work around your children and doing some studying on the side.

I could completely understand where your coming from sitting in an office, etc.
 
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i hate to be brutal here but your not fit to be looking after your kids! it sounds like your struggling to even look after yourself never mind any dependents. I think it would be a terrible decision for the kids to end up with their depressed and sometimes suicidal father. You need to let the correct channels know about your mind state.

I hope things improve and you get better one day.
 
If you get custody of your kids, watch how fast your mindset changes. You will be on autopilot and everything evolves around them including your work life.

It could be a huge blessing. Work would give you a break from the kids, kids will distract you from the monotony of work.

Just hang in there and if possible, don't depend on the state for anything. Do all in your power to be shot of them. They are poison in the long run.
 
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