free 15 hours childcare - can a nursery restrict to afternoons only?

JonnyGeee

JonnyGeee

JonnyGeee

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Cannock
Hey.

So my son is going to be starting nursery soon, he's currently there in saplings. He goes 2 full days (Mon,fri) and one half day (Thurs).

Now when he starts in nursery, they are saying we can only claim the free hours for the afternoons, so he would have to attend all 5 days for 3 hours a day.

This now means we have to pay for the mornings we require him to be there all day (Mon fri).

Are there any terms and conditions saying it can be afternoons only?

My partner does not work Tuesdays and every other Wednesday, and I work a strange shift pattern so now we are losing family time if we take him in on those days, or keep him out and waste out 'free' childcare.

I'm sure it would work fine if we didn't have jobs!
 
Pretty sure the nursery can stipulate when the "free" time can be used. Ours is in full time mon-friday (not ideal but gotta work) and the free hours per week just come of of the pretty sizable bill
 
They have no obligation to take your child. But they can restrict the times but they shouldn't as it's not considered best practice bar "unsocial hours". Well that's what a registered childminder is saying to me at the other end of the room and I'd presume she'd know. She also rightly says I think if they are doing this to you are they really geared up for putting your child first or their profit? Find another provider. I can ask her, when she comes back later, if she recommends anyone your way if you want as we are over in Four Oaks so chances are she may be able to recommend somewhere in Cannock.

Edit: She just came back as I forgot something as usual. She doesn't personally over Cannock but she says that they will have a childcare coordinator who will facilitate finding what you need. You should be able to get their details from the local authority or local library. Good luck.
 
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Two of my Clients are Nurserys and with the main one that offers daycare or just the funded hours, they are flexible...to a degree. They do only have set sessions in day care and you would have to pay for the non funded hours around that.

They have had set sessions though for funded hours only, it has changed from all mornings or all afternoons to first half of the week (Mon, Tue 9-3 and Weds 9-12) and second half of week sessions. This year they offered full flexibility for the pre-school funded only, and as good as it has been for parents, it hasn't worked for the business and they are going back to restricting the sessions on offer.

At the end of the day, it is for the Nursery to set their offer and you to fit in that, not the other way around.

It will be to do with numbers, ratios and staffing.
 
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I think they can restrict it like that tbh, our daughter is in her second year at nursery, she goes 3 hours a day so we pay for that plus the childminder (8 til 6), expensive stuff.

I'd honestly say that afternoon sessions were better for her, I thought she'd be worn out by then but apparently she's far more settled and attentive after lunch, less in a rush to play a she's been doing that all morning with the childminder. She also seems to have far more stories to tell me on the way home :) It may just be her being a year older though, if we have another child I'll be less fussed about mornings/afternoons, but then again I'd have to pay the childminder for cover regardless of which session she went to!
 
I think they probably can do this; our free hours can only be used in the mornings for our chosen nursery as the afternoons are more expensive for the paid clients (different activities and food etc.)
 
I wasnt aware they could restrict it as they see fit. i thought it was there to help working parents not work against us !

Thanks for the information guys, I will have to call around.

Having spoke to the school again today - if we were to pay for the morning session - he wouldn't be in "nursery" he'd actually be in saplings, with other 2 year olds.. then go back to his friends for the afternoon!

Can't see how this would benefit him at all, so I guess a new nursery is what is needed.

Shame really as he has done well with this school, impressed with the things they have done.
 
=XDC=FluphyBunny said:
******** restricting a free service and not tailoring it to your needs!
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It's not a free service, it's a contribution towards hugely expensive child care. It's not like we've been paying income tax, VAT and various duties on everything that we've ever done in our entire lives or anything
 
There was an article on BBC about this recently (in relation to the 30hrs trial); basically saying because they lose so much money on the free childcare (i.e. government doesn't cover the cost) it is common practice for nurseries to deliberately shaft the parents in terms of awkward stipulations around hours etc. This is to ensure they get as much cash out of the customers to subsidise the free hours.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/education-32928117

Slightly off topic but it also annoys me immensely that our nursery charges for bank holidays when they are closed. This means e.g. in May we pay for 9 days care and receive 7. Other parents pay for 9 days care and receive 9 if they don't use Mondays. Same payment, but we receive 2 fewer days for the money. The argument that they have to pay their staff for bank holidays doesn't wash with me at all, they should just increase the daily rate slightly to cover this so their income is the same but is charged directly proportional to the amount of care that is received by the customers.
 
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My wife sorted all our nersury fees out but from what I gather you get 70% for what you pay back.

But answer to your question.... if they are full what can they do but offer afternoons? Could find somewhere else?
 
HangTime said:
There was an article on BBC about this recently (in relation to the 30hrs trial); basically saying because they lose so much money on the free childcare (i.e. government doesn't cover the cost)
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The government pays circa £4 per hour and nursery staff can have 8-13 children over 3. Mine operates around 6 per adult. I don't think they run this at a loss unless they are paying twice minimum wage, which I doubt.
 
As said yes they can ... not every nursery take's 2year old's most start at age 3
the 2year old's fall under different guidelines ect like more members of staff
the nursery I work for don't do full days unless you pay for it and we are the only nursery to take under 3's
 
£4/hour is less than my nursery charges directly - I don't know what their break-even point would be but at the very least it is less profitable than charging the parent assuming the same number of hours.

http://www.nurseryworld.co.uk/nursery-world/news/1148058/providers-fund-free

Independent research commissioned by the Pre-School Learning Alliance (PLA) reveals that the average hourly cost of providing a funded place for a three- and four-year-old is £4.53, compared to an average funding rate of £3.88.
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Our pre-school charges a 'voluntary contribution' to raise the per child funding level to what they consider to be a sustainable amount. I haven't dared find out what would happen if we weren't to pay...
 
SpeedFreak said:
The government pays circa £4 per hour and nursery staff can have 8-13 children over 3. Mine operates around 6 per adult. I don't think they run this at a loss unless they are paying twice minimum wage, which I doubt.
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Ratios are actually :

1 - 3 for under 2's
1 - 4 for 2 - 3's
1 - 8 for 3 - 5's

So you can actually run at a loss for the very young ones which are subsidised by the profit in the older ones, as even though staff is the main expense, by a huge margin, there are obviously other overheads in running the business. Then there is the equipment, jeez, stick 'childcare' in the name of something and the price is just :eek: double it if it's for special educational needs.

Also the funding amount (which is only universal from 3 y/os) is different per county as it's local councils that hand it out, and it's different from Nurseries in schools to PVIs (Private, voluntary, independent) Lincolnshire pays £3.52 to PVIs, and over £5 to Schools, this was cut from £3.55 a few years ago. Heh, they recently had a review to see if it was enough to meet settings needs, didn't ask a single setting and concluded it was :p

Your not allowed to charge any extra for the free funded hours, so it can be a income cut from the normal hourly rate, hence the increase to 30 hrs free is causing some concern. So that's an interesting way Hincapie's Nursery does it, asking for a voluntary contribution :p

Combine that with the push to get all settings to have a graduate leading the place, without generally being able to offer a decent enough wage to retain them and it all adds up to why childcare is so expensive, even though it's a fairly low paid sector of employment.
 
We use our free time differently. He goes to school in the morning (foundation), then the nursery pick him up and he stays there for the rest of the day.

Since he has been going to school in the mornings he has learned far more.
 
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