Student support grants likely to be axed

chroniclard · 12 Jun 2015 at 08:01

Efour said:
Claim political asylum and come to sweden. It feels like living in Britain in the 80s whe n we still had libraries. Post offices. Public beautification of towns and clean streets and all the basic perks that you would expect from living in the west. Tee hee.

/rose tinted, childhood memories.

Still have all of those in our town.

Bensons · 12 Jun 2015 at 08:26

So what? I never got a grant because my household was "well off" but that made me rely on them giving me money when I wasn't working as Somerfield. What if your well off household was tight and never gave you much?

Needless to say my not so "well off" friends had more money than I did all the way through uni through grants.

haz_pro · 12 Jun 2015 at 08:28

I received this support when I was at University and as a result my loans were substantially lower.

I can understand the cuts being made though, if I had a bigger loan I would just have to pay my debt back over a longer amount of time. Just because someone has rich parents doesn't mean they;ll be funding their university education.

MichaelAwkward · 12 Jun 2015 at 08:30

delta0 said:
I'm not sure grants are necessary since the system changed so that fees are not paid up front. I can see that your finances are not relevant.

How do you expect these poorer students to make ends meets whilst at university then? Work a minimum wage, part time job? And potentially see their academic performance suffer, thereby defeating the purpose of going in the first place?

MichaelAwkward · 12 Jun 2015 at 08:31

Bensons said:
So what? I never got a grant because my household was "well off" but that made me rely on them giving me money when I wasn't working as Somerfield. What if your well off household was tight and never gave you much?

Needless to say my not so "well off" friends had more money than I did all the way through uni through grants.

So because some well off households are stingy gits unwilling to properly support their children through university, poor students should suffer the same? :confused:

haz_pro · 12 Jun 2015 at 08:32

MichaelAwkward said:
How do you expect these poorer students to make ends meets whilst at university then? Work a minimum wage, part time job? And potentially see their academic performance suffer, thereby defeating the purpose of going in the first place?

I received the full grants at University, this amounted to the same as people who took out the full loan (and didn't receive any grant). There is no immediate financial hardship caused by removing the grants; students will just get bigger loans.

Why is this so hard for people to understand; reminds me of the student protests/riots a few years back.

Bensons · 12 Jun 2015 at 08:33

MichaelAwkward said:
So because some well off households are stingy gits unwilling to properly support their children through university, poor students should suffer the same?

Indeed. The system is broken.

Efour · 12 Jun 2015 at 08:33

MichaelAwkward said:
So because some well off households are stingy gits unwilling to properly support their children through university, poor students should suffer the same?

Its the infamous OcUK "I cant/didn't have it so why should anybody else" syndrome striking again !

Xordium · 12 Jun 2015 at 08:34

Bensons said:
What if your well off household was tight and never gave you much?

Your well off family doesn't have to be tight to not be able to give you much - your well off family could be spending all their money to position themselves to a point where they can help you get the best schools, tuition, and opportunities etc to actually get to university.

Bensons · 12 Jun 2015 at 08:36

Xordium said:
Your well off family doesn't have to be tight to not be able to give you much - your well off family could be spending all their money to position themselves to a point where they can help you get the best schools, tuition, and opportunities etc to actually get to university.

No, that didn't happen.

MichaelAwkward · 12 Jun 2015 at 08:36

haz_pro said:
I received this support when I was at University and as a result my loans were substantially lower.

I can understand the cuts being made though, if I had a bigger loan I would just have to pay my debt back over a longer amount of time. Just because someone has rich parents doesn't mean they;ll be funding their university education.

Bigger loans don't make up for the loss of grants. Grants today only reduce loans by £1,693. When student halls can potentially cost almost more than the maximum £5,740 loan available, without a grant, poorer students suffer disproportionately without support from family (which as we all know may not be much, even from a well off household) which can mean the difference between struggling to eat properly and all the extras that can possibly come with that (stress, depression, etc, etc.) and being able to perform well academically without all those extra pressures.

George Hincapie · 12 Jun 2015 at 08:37

thebennyboy said:
If things couldn't get any worse for students so far. The poorer in society are getting shafted further.

Source: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-33103878

Fair play to Nick Clegg for stopping that going through, shame he isn't there to try and stop it again. I fear this will go through with nobody to reign in David Cameron's attack on the poor. When fees went up to £9,000 it actually ended up costing the tax payer more! Shows what these conservative clowns are capable (or incapable) of doing.

Opinions?

Good.

Bensons · 12 Jun 2015 at 08:37

Efour said:
Its the infamous OcUK "I cant/didn't have it so why should anybody else" syndrome striking again !

So it's ok for someone to get a grant and not others? :confused:

MichaelAwkward · 12 Jun 2015 at 08:38

Bensons said:
So it's ok for someone to get a grant and not others?

Yes. That's the basis of the entire welfare state. :confused:

George Hincapie · 12 Jun 2015 at 08:39

thebennyboy said:
Then perhaps you should demonstrate that by forming an educated response, which you haven't managed so far.

He has. You just don't like it.

haz_pro · 12 Jun 2015 at 08:39

MichaelAwkward said:
Bigger loans don't make up for the loss of grants. Grants today only reduce loans by £1,693. When student halls can potentially cost almost more than the maximum £5,740 loan available, without a grant, poorer students suffer disproportionately without support from family (which as we all know may not be much, even from a well off household) which can mean the difference between struggling to eat properly and all the extras that can possibly come with that (stress, depression, etc, etc.) and being able to perform well academically without all those extra pressures.

Things must have changed drastically in the last few years then. This definitely wasn't the case when I was at university 5 years back.

Bensons · 12 Jun 2015 at 08:41

MichaelAwkward said:
Yes. That's the basis of the entire welfare state.

But I just showed you how the system is broken. :confused:

MichaelAwkward · 12 Jun 2015 at 08:43

haz_pro said:
Things must have changed drastically in the last few years then. This definitely wasn't the case when I was at university 5 years back.

Two words: living costs. Living at university is an enormous expense before you even start studying in most large cities. Even the cheapest/worst student housing costs upwards of £350 a month where I am, just for one bedroom. That's £4200 gone straight away. University halls are often even more expensive even though they're only for 42 weeks. Without the grant, a poorer student has barely £130 a month to survive for the rest of the year.

Of course in many cases, universities themselves offer hardship funds and bursaries to poorer students, but that's not guaranteed like the grant currently is.

Another option would be to make the loans even larger... but when we already know that only 30% will get paid back and the system is unsustainable, another way should be considered. Maybe take a lesson from Germany...

MichaelAwkward · 12 Jun 2015 at 08:45

Bensons said:
But I just showed you how the system is broken.

Students of parents rich enough to be just above the limits of entitlement but not enough to have enough spare to properly support their children are unfairly treated by the current system, yes. The basis of the system giving to some and not to others is not a flaw however. It's simply the goal posts that need adjusting.

Bensons · 12 Jun 2015 at 08:48

MichaelAwkward said:
Students of parents rich enough to be just above the limits of entitlement but not enough to have enough spare to properly support their children are unfairly treated by the current system, yes. The basis of the system giving to some and not to others is not a flaw however. It's simply the goal posts that need adjusting.

Aye, well said.