I've been issued a P11d by umbrella company

shiver

shiver

shiver

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I'm hoping someone here might have some experience and a better explanation for this situation and where I stand.

Short story: I worked as a contractor via an agency who didn't provide a payroll service so I had to get paid via an umbrella company. The whole setup was less than ideal and a massive cut of the money was being taken but being new to contracting I went with it. The contract itself was great.

I was informed by the umbrella company that as I was an employee of them, the contract was a temporary place of work and I could claim expenses for travel/lunch.

Roughly one year down the line, I'm no longer with the agency because they messed me about, and also no longer with the umbrella company because the setup was too expensive. I am now in full time work.

Last week I was contacted by the umbrella company with this:

Dear Employee,
Please find attached your P11d for the tax year ending 2014/15.
You have been issued a P11d due to the below reason:
You worked on only one contract throughout the term of your employment with xxxxx, effectively making the temporary place of work your normal place of work for tax purposes, therefore eliminating the relief on any travel and subsistence expenses that you may have previously had the benefit of during the time that you were employed.
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Attached document was 2 page PDF out of a 216 page document named "PAYE Online Services - P11D(b) Expenses & Benefits" and quoted £X amount against my name.

I'm getting varying results on my info search, so can someone enlighten me?
 
I'm no expert, in fact I'm 23 and never been a contracted employee, but as far as I know regarding contract law, if you and they have signed the dotted line saying you're entitled to it - as long as there are no other statements which could rescind such statement in the small print - then tell them otherwise, and quote the contract as agreed by the two parties. Presumably you still have a copy of the signed contract right?
 
DR_Pingu said:
I'm no expert, in fact I'm 23 and never been a contracted employee, but as far as I know regarding contract law, if you and they have signed the dotted line saying you're entitled to it - as long as there are no other statements which could rescind such statement in the small print - then tell them otherwise, and quote the contract as agreed by the two parties. Presumably you still have a copy of the signed contract right?
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For sure
 
shiver said:
For sure
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Don't see how you could be liable for those expenses then, as far as I'm personally aware - but that's just off my own head, with no real knowledge of the law regarding this, just thought I could give a point for you to think about/look into.
 
cheesyboy said:
Should be ok, then.

However, there are some rules about fixed term contracts, which I'm not especially familiar with and which could trip you up.
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Yeah I've been thinking that but the fact it was through an agency should negate them.

I'm getting in contact with the tax helpline to check.

For what it's worth, don't ever use umbrella companies or agencies, they're sharks!
 
HMRC Helpline, fun 10-15minutes talking to an automated system to then find out all the advisers are busy and there's no hold queue. Almost disbelief when the automated message just says 'Good Bye' :)

After further correspondence with the umbrella company it appears I just need to declare the expenses myself, as they fall outside their dispensation scheme. Good job I kept all the receipts, and it's going to be a fun time this evening inputting them line by line!
 
A P11d should just state the amount of money you are claiming as allowable expenses. So when you were contracting and putting in expenses, the P11d should give you the total sum of the expenses you put in. A covering letter is usually supplied and you would normally sign and send that letter to ask HMRC to allow that sum under allowable expenses.
 
shiver said:
HMRC Helpline, fun 10-15minutes talking to an automated system to then find out all the advisers are busy and there's no hold queue. Almost disbelief when the automated message just says 'Good Bye' :)

After further correspondence with the umbrella company it appears I just need to declare the expenses myself, as they fall outside their dispensation scheme. Good job I kept all the receipts, and it's going to be a fun time this evening inputting them line by line!
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The umbrella should declare your expenses for you, that what you are paying them for. They are normally contractor accountants of some shape or form. When I used to use an umbrella they did it all for me.
 
cheesyboy said:
How long was it for (the contract)? less than 2 years, and it's a temporary workplace - travel costs are allowable.
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That's actually incorrect.

Agency workers
3.19
Where a worker provides their services through an agency and generally attends only one workplace in respect of each engagement that workplace
will usually be a permanent workplace. However, we recognise that nurses, domestic workers and others who provide their services through an
agency may undertake a number of different jobs on the same day. In these circumstances, those workers may obtain tax relief for travel between those
jobs, but not for travel from home to the first job and to home from the last job on each day
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https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/321897/490.pdf

They're basically clawing back the tax relief you originally had on your travel expenses. You really need to use a contractor accountant to guide you on these thing as you'll miss bits.
 
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I've never had a problem claiming expenses for contracted work through an Umbrella company. You were an employee of the Umbrella company, they were basically paying for you to go to your client's site (via your expenses).
 
bloodiedathame said:
I've never had a problem claiming expenses for contracted work through an Umbrella company. You were an employee of the Umbrella company, they were basically paying for you to go to your client's site (via your expenses).
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Not for travel. It's falls within permanent workplace rules. Depends on how many jobs you do, if you're classed as an employee, etc
 
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