Another muslim terror attack - France

OldCoals said:
To a growing number of people they aren't that extreme.

At that end of the day they are Muslims, followers of Islam trying to establish a caliphate.
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I personally don't think they are, I think they follow something that was based on Islam but is so twisted and distorted that it doesn't resemble what 99% of Muslims follow.

The problem is with nearly 1/6th of the world's population being Muslim, you'd think they'd have a louder voice against such behaviour - and because they don't stand up more openly, the fundamentalists continue to behave and "represent" Islam colouring it negatively which is a shame.

Having spent some time in the Middle East and having met a lot of Muslims in that part of the world, their behaviour is not reflected in what is portrayed by these terrorists.
 
Freefaller said:
I personally don't think they are, I think they follow something that was based on Islam but is so twisted and distorted that it doesn't resemble what 99% of Muslims follow.

The problem is with nearly 1/6th of the world's population being Muslim, you'd think they'd have a louder voice against such behaviour - and because they're not the fundamentalists continue to behave and "represent" Islam colouring it negatively which is a shame.

Having spent some time in the Middle East and having met a lot of Muslims in that part of the world, their behaviour is not reflected in what is portrayed by these terrorists.
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There have been plenty of studies which show that the majority Muslims either actively endorse or do not oppose Sharia. The largest opposition to Sharia law is found in Muslims from Europe, but even here the numbers are still appalling.

I agree, the majority of Muslims are not violent people. But majority of any large population group are usually peaceful people. Its what they passively support that matters.
 
kcon1 said:
I don't understand the comparisons between Christianity and Islam.

Wasn't Jesus a pacifist, "Let he who is without sin cast the first stone" etc.

Meanwhile Mohammed personally ordered a woman to ba stoned to death for adultery. He owned slaves who he had sex with with. He married a 6 year old girl. He also murdered a lot of people.

and this is who Muslims are supposed to emulate and view as the perfect human being?
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Yup,

Bible has a lot of nice things in it (Some not so much), but Jesus seemed like a nice bloke, I think the only time he got raged and kicked someone out of the temple was to do with money (I think he didn't like the idea of it but hey he was right all those 1000's of years ago).

ubersonic said:
The Bible actually says women should be stoned for getting divorced, as well as advocating slavery, killing, etc. Just because Jesus didn't say it doesn't mean it's not in there.
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Think point he is making is the central figure in this case Jesus did not advocate those things, whereas in Islam Mohammed does.
 
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Freefaller said:
The problem is with nearly 1/6th of the world's population being Muslim, you'd think they'd have a louder voice against such behaviour - and because they don't stand up more openly, the fundamentalists continue to behave and "represent" Islam colouring it negatively which is a shame.
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How much more openly do they need to stand up to it? you already have senior figures appearing on TV/Radio/Print condemning it, should the average muslim be going door to door apologizing to anyone offended by the actions of nutcase terrorists that share their religion? I don't recall Irish Catholics ever doing that...
 
Thompson_NCL said:
There have been plenty of studies which show that the majority Muslims either actively endorse or do not oppose Sharia. The largest opposition to Sharia law is found in Muslims from Europe, but even here the numbers are still appalling.
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Care to link those primary sources for those studies you are talking about? I would be interested in reading them and the methodology.
 
Freefaller said:
I don't really know what the answer is, but this is going to continue and something will happen which will cause this to be even worse.
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As long as we keep meddling in the middle east they will keep getting recruits.
I know it's stupid because isis do not help muslims they kill them but I guess some have more hate for the West than sense.
 
Xordium said:
You go back a bit and the Muslim "community" wasn't doing that but as you correctly say in the past year they've gone out of their way to disassociate the actions and condemn them for what they are - terrorist actions having no basis (in their opinion) in Islamic texts. They are representing their communities objection to such acts. It doesn't need every individual to then apologise that is just plain stupid. Even if they did it wouldn't be enough for some. I personally don't need anyone distancing themselves from such barbaric acts for my own purposes but I do think they need to establish to their total community the stance of the community and its solidarity with that stance.

I felt historically they weren't vocal enough. But I have recognised that has changed in recent times. It is worth noting that Muslim communities are actively engaging with the problems of radicalisation in the same way every community has to deal with "disaffected" youth. The consequences for Islamic orientated disaffection tend to more pronounced though which is a problem.

And again I would suggest this is a fundamental problem with such ideologies which are so broad and all encompassing you can pretty much justify any actions with them from totally beneficent to totally morally corrupt if you are willing to accept components in isolation.
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You could say that about any ideology, including things like capitalism. That's one of the reasons we need to disassociate extremists (whatever banner they fight under) from the majority, whether that be muslim extremists and muslims or corrupt officials and normal workers.

Just arguing that Muslim culture (not saying you are doing this) doesn't fit with western (read christian) culture is scarily remenicent of the extremist muslims who are turfing out and murdering non Muslims in the Middle East.

It's almost funny how similar the most vocal on both sides are, they both use the same jargon, phrases and arguments to try and "prove" their points. I bet in a parallel universe some of the members on here were born in Iraq/Syria instead of the UK and are now busy shouting the same phrases and using the same arguments while they run around Syria on behalf of ISIS. :D
 
Thompson_NCL said:
I don't have time to dig them all out, but this will get the ball rolling: http://www.pewforum.org/2013/04/30/...ligion-politics-society-beliefs-about-sharia/
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No rush! But that's not a primary source is it. You can't really say studies show unless you are willing to back that up with the evidence to support that. That evidence needs to be impartial and collated with accurate methodology. If it isn't it's just adding more rhetoric to the debate and is not useful or meaningful. It also invalidates any points made in reference to them.
 
Amp34 said:
You could say that about any ideology, including things like capitalism.
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And that is why I criticise the ideology not the individuals. It's also why I frequently get called anti-Muslim and a terrorist sympathiser in the same thread. :D

All such ideologies should be challenged - they all raise something to the level of "unchallengeable" whether that be god, jesus, Mao, Stalin, Hitler, etc.
 
martinbeaver said:
They seemed to stand up more to some cartoons than to the endless flow of atrocities commited in the name of their religion. Wonder how many street demonstrations we will see after this latest cycle of barbarity?
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Well that partly depends on how the media portray what occurs in the world doesn't it. There is a disparity in how events are portrayed.
 
As I mentioned in my last post - Muslims staying relatively silent on the matter is often (and perhaps mistakenly) seen as an admission of guilt. IE - they to some degree understand and condone the acts.

Clearly that is not true - but the important thing is it looks true.
 
martinbeaver said:
They seemed to stand up more to some cartoons than to the endless flow of atrocities commited in the name of their religion. Wonder how many street demonstrations we will see after this latest cycle of barbarity?
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I always find it funny that mainstream Muslims will riot over cartoons insulting Mohammad or Allah but if some jihadi beheads an infidel and attaches his deed to Allah - no rage.
 
Xordium said:
No rush! But that's not a primary source is it. You can't really say studies show unless you are willing to back that up with the evidence to support that. That evidence needs to be impartial and collated with accurate methodology. If it isn't it's just adding more rhetoric to the debate and is not useful or meaningful. It also invalidates any points made in reference to them.
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Yes, it is a primary source.
 
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