Greece Elections

Mr Jack said:
Because we have the largest banking exposure outside of the US. The rest of the money is state loans. The loss of payment on state loans is no big deal for those involved, at least over the shorter term. Banks, on the other hand will suffer rather more from their losses due to the rules governing them and the knock-on effect of damage to the banking sector will dent the real economy.

Now, £10bn is hardly going to be enough of a loss to really shake the UK banking industry but it's still interesting that we have the worst exposure.
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That's because as part of the earlier proceedings the insolvent banks of places like Spain had the debt converted to government debt in effect.
This didn't happen in the UK (or US) hence the fact ours seems out of line
 
Iraklis F.C. said:
If thats true, why dont you report him in the nearest IRS ?
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Because its rife across the board and officials are bent too. Officials are paid through paye and tax heavily so they are always bitter than everybody else pays no tax so supplement their missing tax in bribes. If caught it can take up to 20 years to get to court and more often then not the paperwork goes missing during those 20 years with the help of a large envelope full of cash. Usually 10k euros does the job. Thats stilll good value for 20 years of paying no tax, 500 euros a year.

ANyway i dont live there so not going to report anybody :P
 
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Can't keep up with this today, I think they'll vote yes (if that means accept the terms) better the devil you know.
 
I do not quite understand that graph either. Why were Spain and Italy major lenders to Greece in the bailout program, isn't Spain in similar strife with youth unemployment and govt debt?
 
It's official: after decades of institutionalised corruption and wanton fiscal irresponsibility, Greece is in arrears to the IMF and has no intention of paying her debts.

The likely result is that she will be kicked from the EU (much to the relief of Germany, Western Europe's de facto leader).

Meanwhile David Cameron has emphatically declared his commitment to the UK's EU membership, in accordance with Thatcher's legacy. He will beg the nation to say 'Yes to Europe' one more time.

The latest MORI poll shows that Britons overwhelmingly favour this option.
 
I find all of this fascinating, though I have to say I feel a bit like a voyeur, it's kind of like the urge people get to rubber neck at car crashes.

Does anybody know what the likely effect a Greek exit would have on GBP - EUR exchange rates? I'm told both the Euro and to a lesser extent the Pound are likely to take a hit vs the Dollar but am less clear on the relationship between the two.
 
FortuitousFluke said:
Does anybody know what the likely effect a Greek exit would have on GBP - EUR exchange rates? I'm told both the Euro and to a lesser extent the Pound are likely to take a hit vs the Dollar but am less clear on the relationship between the two.
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no one knows the effects of a Greek exit, the uncertainity is why the EU reps. have been trying so hard to avoid it.
 
The IMF and the ECB have forced Greece into this situation by making unrealistic demands and making paying back the loans prohibitively expensive which did nothing more than increase Greece's overall debt. The Greeks on the other hand see tax evasion as a national sport and not just the rich couple that with rampant corruption it was never going to end well.
 
Kronos said:
The IMF and the ECB have forced Greece into this situation by making unrealistic demands and making paying back the loans prohibitively expensive which did nothing more than increase Greece's overall debt. The Greeks on the other hand see tax evasion as a national sport and not just the rich couple that with rampant corruption it was never going to end well.
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they've not forced them into the situation at all, the option they had would have cause a fair few years of pain for sure but they had the choice

they got themselves into the mess, they've had some debt relief, they've had a bunch of debt restructured and they have the opportunity to carry on with the bailout subject to them making certain reforms

no one is forcing them to do anything, they're a sovereign nation - they're able to default if they chose, they're able to go back to their own currency... or they're able to stay in the eurozone... which means they can't default and need to stick to a plan to sort out their huge pile of debt... this comes with certain tough conditions to ensure said plan is realistic
 
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dowie said:
they got themselves into the mess, they've had some debt relief, they've had a bunch of debt restructured and they have the opportunity to carry on with the bailout subject to them making certain reforms
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I know it's very easy to sit here and chat dispassionately about them carrying on with the reforms, but the reality on the ground is the populous have had a massive decline in GDP, a huge decline in living standards coupled with huge unemployment, there's only so much people can take especially when the 'reforms' are further economically painful ones that don't benefit the country, just the creditors.

I'm not sticking up for them and I know they brought a lot on themselves, but then, we are all guilty (country wise) of not always playing by the rules to some extent.

As well as the argument of whether austerity is the solution to a debt problem (very debatable) rather than growth and I can understand why the people have had enough.
 
Greece conned her way into the Euro Club and got caught when everyone realised she was paying with overdue credit.

Off you go lass, you won't be missed.
 
As well as the argument of whether austerity is the solution to a debt problem (very debatable) rather than growth and I can understand why the people have had enough.
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people might have had enough but they might also not like the alternative option of defaulting depending how that works out....

they don't really have any other options, no one is going to carry on throwing money at them unless they make changes and can stick to a plan that their creditors agree to - why should tax payers in other EU countries fund the pensions of people in Greece who get to retire years before they do etc..
 
backed themselves into a corner now

they now either concede to the demands to get the money they need..and appear weak to the greek people

or they tough it out..and end up running a country with no money and nobody willing to lend them any
 
The Greek government (this one and the last one) have done a lot of things that are unpopular with the Greek people with easy short term cost saving measures such as cuts to services and tax hikes.

I haven't seen much from Greece in carrying out the vital structural change in the bureaucracy of the civil service in terms of its size or efficiency in collecting revenue.

As a leftie I'm fairly anti-austerity and prefer a borrow-to-build infrastructure approach, however even I agree that, that only works if the government is able to borrow money at a reasonable cost (whether in terms of rates or other restrictions from the lenders).

Even if Greece votes yes and stays in the euro and accepts further cuts, without actual systematic change in the infrastructure of how the country operates it's just kicking the can down the road.
 
On the one hand i feel sorry for the "Normal" Greek person as their country has gone to the dogs and its going to get worse for them before it gets better.

On the other hand for decades they kept voting in governments who kept giving them what they wanted - basically tax free earnings and stupid high pensions. The uk is struggling to meet its pension contributions but when you discover the Greek system was a final salary pension of 70% of the average of your final 5 years work and so badly managed that back in 2011 when they started to try and reform it, they discovered that 8 billion had been paid to pensioners who were in fact dead, I am not surprised they are bankrupt.

And thats the double edge sword now and why the Greek people didnt take to austerity too well. On top of the normal austerity things of reduced pension payments and increased taxation, they were having to live with starting to pay tax and not been able to claim their dead grandma's pension anymore on top.

Greece spends 17.5% of its GDP on pensions more than any other EU country. Part of the current terms for the bailout was a reduction of this by 2 billion, the new current Greek government offered 71 million.

It was never ever going to work and there comes a point when other EU countries say enough is enough and we cant continue giving money to Greece so they can keep their lifestyle as it was.
 
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