Belgians doctors agree to "assist the dying" of healthy 24yr old with suicidal thoughts
- Thread starter spudbynight
- Start date
Yes, it is you just fail to see that because you don't understand what you are about.
No you didn't - actually you said:
Would it help if made that a screenshot for you?
I'd argue personally physical and mental were strange Descartian hangovers, but each to their own.
Last edited:
I believe Hotwired is saying (I may be wrong, some content conflicts with this) that a condition like dementia, to which there is no known method of cure, isn't the same as say depression - to which there may be a myriad of potential cures.
Some illnesses are terminal, or (as good as) definitively permanent - others have a higher rate of cure & are known to be often temporary.
That's not the say the women in question was curable, I don't have the data or the expertise to make that assessment.
Some illnesses are terminal, or (as good as) definitively permanent - others have a higher rate of cure & are known to be often temporary.
That's not the say the women in question was curable, I don't have the data or the expertise to make that assessment.
Last edited:
So in your opinion mental illness is not a real illness and causes no suffering?
Clearly you've never suffered from/had someone close to you suffer from mental illness.
I've highlighted the relevant part of the quote.
When you've exhausted all known methods of cure, and the illness isn't cured, then surely by definition there are no further known methods of cure?
As you've acknowledged, none of us in this thread know the full story, and are unable to make an educated judgement in this case.
I agree with the sentiment that there should be rigorous checks and balances in place, and that all other avenues should be exhausted first, however in principle, I'm in favour of someone being able to make the choice to end their own suffering "safely" and in as little pain as possible, when all other options have been tried.
Last edited:
Caporegime
- Joined
- 1 Dec 2010
- Posts
- 53,766
- Location
- Welling, London
I agree with hotwired. Locked in syndrome and the like are a completely different matter.
If we start euthanising people for mental illness we are on a very slippery slope. If they take their own life, so be it, but don't put such a moral burden on others.
If we start euthanising people for mental illness we are on a very slippery slope. If they take their own life, so be it, but don't put such a moral burden on others.
To which I've already addressed. Depression is a not a discrete entity.
The specific post is here:
People are arguing from a lack of ignorance here. They are presuming that cures haven't been attempted and failed. The process is exactly the same as for an oncology patient. No different. They just can't get past their strange mind-body duality paradigms. Then they'll pop in a religious thread and have a laugh at believers of said faiths - what do they think makes the mind separate and distinct from the body - magic?!?
Disagreeing with death as a treatment for depression does not equal a disbelief in mental illness.
The opportunity is real. I shall partially let it pass.
The question really is are you trying to change my mind or simply complain that it doesn't match yours.
The opportunity is real. I shall partially let it pass.
The question really is are you trying to change my mind or simply complain that it doesn't match yours.
No I am wondering why you keep taking those screenshots.
All very odd ...
I thought it was some kind of quote engine
If not it's a bit creepy 
I am afraid my last paragraph doesn't answer why you keep using screenshots.
I agree, which is why I added the necessary caveat regarding the exhaustive process likely being followed earlier.
The difference regarding depression & say terminal cancer is that one is far easier for us to gage medically & determine the long term prognosis. While it can be also be done for various mental disorders it's also not to the same level of accuracy, particularly for something as complex as depression.
Don't get me wrong, I agree broadly with your point - I'm also strongly in favour of the materialist view of the world & see no need to bring in a form of substance dualism here.
I've got a family member who suffers from a serious mental illness & at times earlier in her life she wasn't 'curable' but a combination of time & a change in circumstances have transformed her in ways professional medical care wasn't able. This is a difference worth considering between one form of illness & another - the possibility for change & how definitive it may be.
Just because all medical attempts have failed for a cure, some conditions are able to improve with external non-medical influences - others are not.
Last edited:
And of course the people who make such decisions are well aware of that and the potentiality.
I agree they will be aware of the prospect, but it will be dealing with estimates.
We don't have definitive data in this regard when comparing to another illness which may be comparably far simpler.
The amount of unknown variables would put me off being involved in permanent & irreversible interventions - that's not to say it's the right or wrong thing to do, just I'd be very reluctant to. It may be I'm viewing this from a statistical/predictive point of view as opposed to medically.
I'm not saying I fundamentally disagree with the decision, just it makes me uneasy due to the very real possibility of people being euthanized who could have recovered (everybody makes mistakes, doctors & clinicians included & this most certainly is a matter of life & death).
Last edited:
She really shouldn't be allowed to do this. I mean, we should be able to help her psychologically, and if that doesn't work, just drug her up until she doesn't notice anymore, and if that no longer works, how about a transorbital lobotomy. I mean, as long as she's alive, it's fine, right?
/s
/s
Congratulations.
But we can apply that logic to everything. Things are far from clear cut across many things. It's all estimates based on populations - people never seem to understand this - the best thing we can tell you about is populations - how that then relates to the individual is well at best a guess for everything. And that is from a statistical point. There are too many variables for most things bar really clear cut stuff - and that is in the real minority of cases.
It's not like we aren't effectively assisting people to die on a daily basis anyway. I don't see death as a failure but as a normal aspect of life. I do see prolonging suffering needlessly as a failure and also a gross violation of medical ethics.