8th July Budget

dowie · 5 Jul 2015 at 20:02

Caged said:
I think perhaps if we are that badly wanting for money then maybe don't promise the world to pensioners or inflate the housing market through buy to let tax breaks before you attack one of the most basic functions of a welfare state.

pensioners are part of the welfare state

what buy to let tax breaks are you referring to?

robfosters · 5 Jul 2015 at 20:05

dowie said:
well perhaps that is where opinion comes into it but IMO we are wasting rather a lot on benefits and it accounts for a rather large portion of government spending

You don't seem too sure where exactly we are wasting benefit money.

dowie · 5 Jul 2015 at 20:06

robfosters said:
You don't seem too sure where exactly we are wasting benefit money.

I was quite specific, you seem to have short term memory issues - we were only just discussing the wasting of money on prime London housing a few posts back for example

Caged · 5 Jul 2015 at 20:11

If it's property owned by the LA then is it really a waste?

MrMoonX · 5 Jul 2015 at 20:12

dowie said:
I was quite specific, you seem to have short term memory issues - we were only just discussing the wasting of money on prime London housing a few posts back for example

Pensioners benefits account for £74bn of the welfare budget, but have been untouched, rich pensioners enjoying winter fuel allowance etc. is such a priority spend

robfosters · 5 Jul 2015 at 20:13

dowie said:
I was quite specific, you seem to have short term memory issues - we were only just discussing the wasting of money on prime London housing a few posts back for example

Yeah I remember that, but your tone seemed to suggest we are wasting it elsewhere as well, which I don't think we are.

dowie · 5 Jul 2015 at 20:14

Caged said:
If it's property owned by the LA then is it really a waste?

less of a waste than paying to a private sector landlord but yes still a waste

what is the point of LA housing in say Kensington, should sell it off and make more homes elsewhere with the funds

dowie · 5 Jul 2015 at 20:14

robfosters said:
Yeah I remember that, but your tone seemed to suggest we are wasting it elsewhere as well, which I don't think we are.

so is paying the state pension to a multimillionaire not a waste?

dowie · 5 Jul 2015 at 20:15

MrMoonX said:
Pensioners benefits account for £74bn of the welfare budget, but have been untouched, rich pensioners enjoying winter fuel allowance etc. is such a priority spend

exactly, yet some people seem to think we're not wasting money on benefits....

Caged · 5 Jul 2015 at 20:18

dowie said:
less of a waste than paying to a private sector landlord but yes still a waste

what is the point of LA housing in say Kensington, should sell it off and make more homes elsewhere with the funds

You really can't class loss of potential income from a sale as a waste. Unless you're going to class not keeping it and selling it when it was worth even more as a bigger waste as well. In which case it's less wasteful for LAs to hold onto property in these locations.

dowie · 5 Jul 2015 at 20:21

Caged said:
You really can't class loss of potential income from a sale as a waste.

I can and just did. Housing could be organised London wide instead of by individual boroughs - we've got billions in assets that are used inefficiently.

robfosters · 5 Jul 2015 at 20:24

dowie said:
exactly, yet some people seem to think we're not wasting money on benefits....

I actually agree with you about the pensioners benefits. problem is, most have paid in for over 40 years, but some are so well off, particularly those with no mortgage and a good private pension, that an extra £150 a week makes no difference to their lives. This money could be better used elsewhere.

Apparently, scrapping the winter fuel allowance and free bus pass would save 3bn a year.

I think other benefits should be untouched, other than DLA/PIP, which should be taxable.

Danthus · 5 Jul 2015 at 20:38

MrMoonX said:
Pensioners benefits account for £74bn of the welfare budget, but have been untouched, rich pensioners enjoying winter fuel allowance etc. is such a priority spend

Which goes to show announcements so far are ideologically driven.

Pensioners vote, the less well of and youngsters don't.

do_ron_ron · 5 Jul 2015 at 20:41

Caged said:
How do you class 'put in'? Because

It's called your stamp. 5 years worth of full class stamps or equivalent.

Duke · 5 Jul 2015 at 20:45

MrMoonX said:
Pensioners benefits account for £74bn of the welfare budget, but have been untouched, rich pensioners enjoying winter fuel allowance etc. is such a priority spend

I think it is one of those policies that would cost more to remove the top pensioners from than it would save.

Danthus · 5 Jul 2015 at 20:47

Duke said:
I think it is one of those policies that would cost more to remove the top pensioners from than it would save.

Votes.

Duke · 5 Jul 2015 at 20:51

OldCoals said:
Votes.

Very good

Remember who introduced it originally.

Caged · 5 Jul 2015 at 20:53

dowie said:
I can and just did. Housing could be organised London wide instead of by individual boroughs - we've got billions in assets that are used inefficiently.

If you move people out from expensive areas because the property is now worth more than it costs to build another one elsewhere then you're going to be moving people around forever.

If you see the potential sale of housing the same as you would any other asset like vehicles or commercial buildings then we are never going to see eye to eye on this.

dowie · 5 Jul 2015 at 20:57

Caged said:
If you move people out from expensive areas because the property is now worth more than it costs to build another one elsewhere then you're going to be moving people around forever.

not necessarily no - I'm talking about organizing housing on a London wide basis for example - you're still confined to moving people within 'London' in that case and I'm not talking about some minor differences in prices but rather major ones such as Westminster vs anywhere in Zone 3, 4 etc.. I highly doubt that you'll find another area further out suddenly becoming more expensive than Westminster.

robfosters · 5 Jul 2015 at 21:03

dowie said:
not necessarily no - I'm talking about organizing housing on a London wide basis for example - you're still confined to moving people within 'London' in that case and I'm not talking about some minor differences in prices but rather major ones such as Westminster vs anywhere in Zone 3, 4 etc.. I highly doubt that you'll find another area further out suddenly becoming more expensive than Westminster.

But then you're effectively telling people where they can live.