Corporate "Welfare"

[Danthus]

http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2015/jul/07/corporate-welfare-a-93bn-handshake

Taxpayers are handing businesses £93bn a year – a transfer of more than £3,500 from each household in the UK.

The total emerges from the first comprehensive account of what Britons give away to companies in grants, subsidies and tax breaks, published exclusively in the Guardian.

Some numbers summaried.

• Subsidies and grants: £14.5bn This includes cash to train operators to run services, subsidies to defence firms, and grants to businesses to induce them to invest. The £14.5bn figure for 2012-13 is also used by the Treasury in its own statistical analysis of government spending.

• Corporate tax benefits: £44bn Of the 93 major tax reliefs provided by the Treasury, 27 are aimed at business. The largest amount was spent allowing businesses to write off billions spent on plants, machinery and equipment among other items.

In 2012-13, the public gave a £20bn subsidy to private investment. The construction industry also gained more than £7bn in exemptions on new housing and land duty.

A 2009 study by the rich nations’ thinktank, the OECD, found that the UK had more generous corporate tax benefits than the US, Germany or any of the seven other major economies it examined.

• Hidden transport subsidies: £15bn Unlike motorists and the petrol levies they are charged, airlines do not pay tax on fuel – support worth about £8.5bn a year, according to MPs on parliament’s transport select committee. Train companies also enjoy lower duty on fuel.

• Energy subsidies: £3.8bn Most public handouts to energy firms are not widely acknowledged, according to a recent House of Commons environmental audit committee report. It said: “The variation in definitions of subsidy allows the government to resist acknowledging subsidy in many areas.” Yet the dismantling of Britain’s nuclear power stations cost the public £2.3bn in 2012-13 alone.

• Insurance, advice and advocacy services: £406m Includes such vital services as the state’s insurance scheme for trading abroad – the export credit guarantee – of which the defence firm BAE Systems says: “Many of our customers require it.” It also includes government trade advisers and overseas business networks.

• Government procurement from the private sector: £15bn Capita, Atos, G4S and Serco alone received £4bn worth of public-sector contracts in 2012-13. While procurement provides the public with services, it is not always about securing value for money for taxpayers, as the business secretary at the time, Vince Cable, acknowledged in 2012. He said: “There is a role for the government using procurement in a more strategic way.”

I assume there will be equal endeavour from the government to make sure everyone contributes to austerity?

 

[Lartyconshayo]

sorry old boy. We've got billionaires to protect and cushy jobs to walk into. Watch benefits street and remind yourself who we need to clamp down on

 

[Diddums]

sorry old boy. We've got billionaires to protect and cushy jobs to walk into. Watch benefits street and remind yourself who we need to clamp down on

Nice

You need money to get money, that's capitalism for you. No money, no growth. Simples.

 

[arknor]

http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2015/jul/07/corporate-welfare-a-93bn-handshake



Some numbers summaried.



I assume there will be equal endeavour from the government to make sure everyone contributes to austerity?

if we don't bribe them with subsidies they will leave the country and their will be no investment or something.

There on about subsidising north east oil now I think

Most interesting would be who putting pressure on mps etc to lobby for them

 

[coolsurfer]

Instead of complaining, whatever happened to if you can't beat them join them. All are listed on FTSE, save your monies and invest in the relevant equities.

I have never been a complainer, I will always learn and absorb and apply.

 

[Caged]

You post a lot of threads.

 

[Destination]

Most of these are not hand outs.
Most of these are tax breaks.
So we're not giving them the money, we are simply not collecting the money, as it isn't part of their current tax structure.
No reason parts of this can't change, some of it the population find useful. Without rail fare subsidies, train ticket costs in England would double, this would hurt most users of the railways, of which I am not one. It would save me some tax no doubt.

The largest amount was spent allowing businesses to write off billions spent on plants, machinery and equipment among other items.
^^ How else do you encourage investment? I don't really understand why they see this as an issue? I want to spend £1M of my profits buying new machines so I can employ more staff... I can only buy £700000 as I have to pay tax on it?

 

[Dolph]

The government doesn't give anything away with tax breaks, and the guardian has included some basic accounting practice along with exemptions that have been in place for decades (like being able to write off capital expenditure against tax).

The article probably has some valid points, but if is so full of abject misleading crap the valid points will quickly be lost...

 

[estebanrey]

I want to spend £1M of my profits buying new machines so I can employ more staff... I can only buy £700000 as I have to pay tax on it?

LOL, businesses don't want to grow so they can employ more staff (if you're buying new machinery it'll probably be more efficient and replace some of them anyway), they want bigger profits and they need more staff to get them.

That's why I cringe when millionaire business owners describe themselves as "job creators" as job creation is just a fortunate by-product of expansion.

If you offered a company twice as many staff with 25% rise in profits or cutting 25% of jobs but you'll get 50% more profit they'd take the latter every time.

 

[Ilikeitblackplease]

http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2015/jul/07/corporate-welfare-a-93bn-handshake



Some numbers summaried.



I assume there will be equal endeavour from the government to make sure everyone contributes to austerity?

corporate welfare £93bn, yet corporation tax brings in £43 billion.

 

[Ilikeitblackplease]

Most of these are not hand outs.
Most of these are tax breaks.
So we're not giving them the money, we are simply not collecting the money, as it isn't part of their current tax structure.
No reason parts of this can't change, some of it the population find useful. Without rail fare subsidies, train ticket costs in England would double, this would hurt most users of the railways, of which I am not one. It would save me some tax no doubt.

The largest amount was spent allowing businesses to write off billions spent on plants, machinery and equipment among other items.
^^ How else do you encourage investment? I don't really understand why they see this as an issue? I want to spend £1M of my profits buying new machines so I can employ more staff... I can only buy £700000 as I have to pay tax on it?

opportunity cost.

 

[CREATIVE!11]

sorry old boy. We've got billionaires to protect and cushy jobs to walk into. Watch benefits street and remind yourself who we need to clamp down on

Yep, we really need to be watching out for that chav down the off licence buying ciggies with his 60 quid a week! I tell you chaps, they are fully responsible for the austerity we are facing.

Forget all tax dodgers and financial fraud occurring.

corporate welfare £93bn, yet corporation tax brings in £43 billion.

Trololol. Won't you think of da jabz?!

WHAT ABOUT DA JABZ?!

 

[[TW]Fox]

sorry old boy. We've got billionaires to protect and cushy jobs to walk into. Watch benefits street and remind yourself who we need to clamp down on

Yes, because subsidies to bus companies are about protecting billionaires not old people who live on unprofitable bus routes.

Airlines don't pay duty on fuel because it's pretty pointless doing that when they are flying planes that can simply refuel somewhere else instead - and if they couldn't, who pays the duty? Yes, us in ticket prices anyway.

And as for capital allowances for plant being classed as a 'giveaway', honestly, what on earth? It's a standard accounting instrument the world over!

Why does everything about politics on here have to be some sort of conspiracy to protect billionaires?

 

[jsmoke]

Interesting read here if you have the time, haven't read through it all yet.

http://www.renewal.org.uk/articles/the-british-corporate-welfare-state

 

[alx]

Yes, because subsidies to bus companies are about protecting billionaires not old people who live on unprofitable bus routes.

Airlines don't pay duty on fuel because it's pretty pointless doing that when they are flying planes that can simply refuel somewhere else instead - and if they couldn't, who pays the duty? Yes, us in ticket prices anyway.

And as for capital allowances for plant being classed as a 'giveaway', honestly, what on earth? It's a standard accounting instrument the world over!

Why does everything about politics on here have to be some sort of conspiracy to protect billionaires?

Because the butthurt is strong on here.

 

[Deleted member 66701]

What about using working tax credits to subsidise rubbish employers that wont or are too incompetent at running a business to pay a living wage?

 

[LordSplodge]

Why does everything about politics on here have to be some sort of conspiracy to protect billionaires?

indeed, but I question why the disabled, poor, including working poor are being forced to cary the burden of 'austerity' though.

What about using working tax credits to subsidise rubbish employers that wont or are too incompetent at running a business to pay a living wage?

Indeed but cheap labour helps make the Soylent Green.

 

[Jono8]

Why does everything about politics on here have to be some sort of conspiracy to protect billionaires?

Because a lot of people are stupid, and they like to feel they are "raging against the machine"

I have got one stupid person on Facebook who is vehemently against the Tory's and austerity etc

Yet she can't see her own ridiculous hypocrisy when she spouts on about why peoples pensions aren't being cut in the welfare budget (saying its because pensioners vote Tory).

Because of course it is the old and weak who have worked and paid tax all their life that should be persecuted isn't it. Nice social conscience she has got there...

 

[Uther]

What about using working tax credits to subsidise rubbish employers that wont or are too incompetent at running a business to pay a living wage?

Don't worry, the plan is to cut their workers tax credits so the employers will instantly see the light and pay them a living wage.
Happy workers and the economy saved in one fell swoop.
Job done. All hail George.

 

[dowie]

Why does everything about politics on here have to be some sort of conspiracy to protect billionaires?

because people get a bit silly about this sort of thing

not to mention that plenty of these companies are public, so its actually ordinary pensions that are the beneficiaries... and of course, as you pointed out,t he end users - bus passengers, train passengers

the irony is that the people complaining about 'corporate welfare' in those instances likely wouldn't bat an eyelid over say nationalisation of railways... which would cost even more in public funds and rather more in terms of regular 'corporate welfare' to keep it all running

it is phrase, along with the 'bedroom tax', designed to portray something from a particular angle in order to get readers worked up

then again this is the same paper that decided to publish a bizarre article about supposed 'tax breaks' for landlords... when if you actually read the thing they were talking about deducting costs (mortgage interest) in order to calculate profit... which is something rather fundamental to any business.... but the average numpty reading it can instead get in an outrage over 'tax breaks' that don't even exist