Greece Elections

Danthus · 12 Jul 2015 at 10:35

Once Greece leaves..............

thep02 · 12 Jul 2015 at 10:40

Dolph said:
Works for me, the eurozone is a classic example of economic reality over political wishful thinking.

And strangely its formation was a case of political wishful thinking over economic reality.

Nitefly · 12 Jul 2015 at 10:42

Just bought some feta cheese from a shop - doing my small part to help.

Destination · 12 Jul 2015 at 10:46

Nitefly said:
Just bought some feta cheese from a shop - doing my small part to help.

I think I'll not pay any taxes for thirty years in solidarity.

-edit, no I won't.

dowie · 12 Jul 2015 at 11:08

M1k3H said:
In my personal opinion, unless there's significant debt restructuring, Greece should walk away and start again.

They have nothing to lose short term (situation in already dire anyway)
and they have everything to gain long term, if they fight for it.

they won't walk away, they don't want to

problem is they may well have no choice but to exit the euro

they've behaved like clowns, people don't trust them any more and there is a reasonable chance now that even after putting forth proposals it is too little too late

Belly · 12 Jul 2015 at 11:18

Lock all the Greeks up in Debtors Prison until the debt has been paid?

V F · 12 Jul 2015 at 11:20

Belly said:
Lock all the Greeks up in Debtors Prison until the debt has been paid?

Everyone else are sweet little angels?

dowie · 12 Jul 2015 at 11:23

I think they're either going to have to submit to either tougher proposals than they just agreed to, with various guarantees in place... or they're going to be cut off

scorza · 12 Jul 2015 at 11:28

M1k3H said:
Current Account (from trading).

See http://www.tradingeconomics.com/germany/current-account-to-gdp

Or http://data.worldbank.org/indicator/BN.CAB.XOKA.GD.ZS

Oh trade surplus - wasn't aware there were EU rules about how large these could be. Now I am. Cheers.

Jono8 · 12 Jul 2015 at 12:10

"Ministers are warming to the softly spoken Oxford graduate though: " - "#Eurogroup minister: Tsakalotos should have come in February. #Varoufakis ruined everything, we wasted five months"

That Yanis Varoufakis was a liability. I can see why they got rid of him.

Danny091 · 12 Jul 2015 at 12:14

M1k3H said:
I can never see Greece accepting to sell off assets...

Those assets couldn't possibly be the oil/gas in the Aegean Sea now could it?

dowie said:
they've already agreed to sell off assets - ports + shares of a telecoms company

Could see some German flags flying on the islands of Greece. That would be interesting legally but terrible for Greece \:

dowie · 12 Jul 2015 at 12:16

I think that might be a bit far fetched...

V F · 12 Jul 2015 at 12:20

Danny091 · 12 Jul 2015 at 12:22

Jono8 said:
Only Germany have the power to veto it. The smaller countries have little influence in a vote.

Actually They need 85% of the shares of the EZ to pass the vote if they class it as an emergency. The shares are currently structured as;

So they need 5 966 450 votes YES. So Germany, France or Italy vetoing would kill it instantly. However nearly all the other country's would have to vote NO if them three voted yes to kill it.

Nate--IRL-- · 12 Jul 2015 at 12:34

A good lot of the Northern and Eastern countries will be voting against the bailout. Finland in particular is vociferously against it.

Nate

Jono8 · 12 Jul 2015 at 12:43

Danny091 said:
Actually They need 85% of the shares of the EZ to pass the vote if they class it as an emergency. The shares are currently structured as;

So they need 5 966 450 votes YES. So Germany, France or Italy vetoing would kill it instantly. However nearly all the other country's would have to vote NO if them three voted yes to kill it.

I know

That is what I meant. Germany are the only country in the no camp that could veto it themselves.

France and Italy are very much on Greece's side and will do everything they can to keep Greece in.

dowie · 12 Jul 2015 at 12:44

Danny091 said:
So they need 5 966 450 votes YES. So Germany, France or Italy vetoing would kill it instantly. However nearly all the other country's would have to vote NO if them three voted yes to kill it.

you only need just over a million to kill it... so there are other combinations that only require a few other countries

Finland seems to be saying no so Spain + another mid size one is enough to scupper it in theory (though Spain is likely pro bailout)

Jono8 · 12 Jul 2015 at 12:49

dowie said:
you only need just over a million to kill it... so there are other combinations that only require a few other countries

Finland seems to be saying no so Spain + another mid size one is enough to scupper it in theory (though Spain is likely pro bailout)

Spain, Italy and France won't vote no. Germany is the main problem. If Germany are on board, Greece will get the bailout.

M1k3H · 12 Jul 2015 at 13:06

thep02 said:
What you mean the vast fields discovered just before the Greek economy was pushed over the edge by the very people who have the cash to buy those assets at a knockdown price?

Stop it you, someone might think you are suggesting a conspiracy is going on by the Germans

dowie said:
they won't walk away, they don't want to

problem is they may well have no choice but to exit the euro

they've behaved like clowns, people don't trust them any more and there is a reasonable chance now that even after putting forth proposals it is too little too late

You seem to underestimate pride.

From the BBC:

Panagiotis Trikokglou told the BBC: "The only thing I care about is not being humiliated by Schaeuble and the rest of them. I don't care if we go to the drachma or whatever, we support the prime minister whatever decision he makes. But now I feel a little bad, not with the prime minister but with Germany's stance. This misanthrope Schaeuble, I don't know what he's trying to achieve."

This is what the common people are thinking. You think they would rather submit again? To much harsher austerity?

dowie · 12 Jul 2015 at 13:13

I'm not underestimating anything, that is irrelevant - they've already submitted proposals to try and prevent them from exiting

'problem is they may well have no choice but to exit the euro'

has got little to do with pride or any choice/view on the part of the Greeks at this point... it is down to other European leaders now