Greece Elections

scorza · 12 Jul 2015 at 18:49

Hikari Kisugi said:
Cyprus is by far the most Eastern of the countries listed.

... and yet wouldn't normally be considered to be in eastern Europe as well you know.

Iraklis F.C. · 12 Jul 2015 at 18:50

talking about trust

ya know, it goes both ways

Orionaut · 12 Jul 2015 at 18:51

I have always felt that a "Common Currency" is a flawed concept.

The problem is that it seems to act as an economic amplifier. Regions that do slightly better end up doing a lot better, regions that do slightly worse rapidly end up having such economy that they do have sucked out of them to the benefit of the more successful regions.

It is bad enough even in a relatively small country like the UK where the regional differences are not "That" dramatic. (There is massive economic bias towards the SE to the detriment of other parts of the country however)

But to apply it across a continent which such differences in economic capability as Germany/France/UK and Greece/Latvia/Cyprus and the effect is catastrophic on the weaker economies.

You only have to look at the USA to see the same effect taking place there. There are whole regions with levels of poverty that are hard to reconcile with the USA's general level of perceived wealth. And the fact that the USA has the Dollar as a continent wide common currency has a great deal to do with it.

"Grexit" would cause a whole new set of problems and uncertainties, but it is really the only chance that the Greek people have of eventually recovering from this catastrophe.

(And if the concept of the Euro really is so weak that a country with the population of a large city pulling out can cause it to falter then it is really needs to be put out of its misery, and the sooner the better!)

Iraklis F.C. · 12 Jul 2015 at 19:00

Evangelion said:
Greece has offered an unacceptable agreement. Germany has rightly turned it down.

If you want to save your economy you'll need to do better than this.

unacceptable, it is exactly the same like the last one before the referendum and even worse. That was acceptable last week, this week is not? hahahah what a farce

Iraklis F.C. · 12 Jul 2015 at 19:03

Hikari Kisugi said:
Cyprus is by far the most Eastern of the countries listed.

i thought finland is?

Destination · 12 Jul 2015 at 19:05

Iraklis F.C. said:
unacceptable, it is exactly the same like the last one before the referendum and even worse. That was acceptable last week, this week is not? hahahah what a farce

Well, given that you wasted 5 months to come to this point, and that no one trusts you, an accepted agreement 5 months ago, and things might look different.

Given the graph of trust in the EU, I'd like to see a similar one from member countries entitled, 'I trust the Greek government to do what they say.' and see the %. I'd reckon in Greece it wouldn't hit 20%, rest of Europe, wouldn't hit 10.

Who's going to make a deal with that?

Nate--IRL-- · 12 Jul 2015 at 19:06

Iraklis F.C. said:
unacceptable, it is exactly the same like the last one before the referendum and even worse. That was acceptable last week, this week is not? hahahah what a farce

Last week was before Greece had its economy torpedoed. If bailout #3 is the rumoured €82bn..... Ireland's contribution has just skyrocketed to €1,300,000,000.

That is ~€750 per employed person in Ireland going right to Greece. You can see why some might feel put out...

Nate

Destination · 12 Jul 2015 at 19:08

Iraklis F.C. said:
i thought finland is?

Nope

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Stretch · 12 Jul 2015 at 21:58

Iraklis F.C. said:
unacceptable, it is exactly the same like the last one before the referendum and even worse. That was acceptable last week, this week is not? hahahah what a farce

The short answer is everyone has had enough of the games, and they see no end. The referendum, and subsequent economic shutdown (which have cost Greece another 25bn euros), were the final straw.

You could ask your question the other way around. If the deal is the same deal on offer before the referendum, and it was rejected by Greece, why would Greece accept it now, when they didn't two/three weeks ago.

Iraklis F.C. · 12 Jul 2015 at 22:12

Stretch said:
The short answer is everyone has had enough of the games, and they see no end. The referendum, and subsequent economic shutdown (which have cost Greece another 25bn euros), were the final straw.

You could ask your question the other way around. If the deal is the same deal on offer before the referendum, and it was rejected by Greece, why would Greece accept it now, when they didn't two/three weeks ago.

because politics man, politics. The only good out of this referendum is that the PM has become an all powerful PM who could might implement the "reforms". Beside this i dont see any point on that referendum, i have also said it was a very strange decision.

bitslice · 12 Jul 2015 at 22:19

I don't see the problem,
they happily receive most of the immigration from Libya, so with all that cheap labour their economy should be booming (Cameron says so and he wouldn't lie)
and they benefit from liberal multicultural social enrichment for free.

What's not to like? :confused:

Stretch · 12 Jul 2015 at 22:32

Iraklis F.C. said:
because politics man, politics. The only good out of this referendum is that the PM has become an all powerful PM who could might implement the "reforms". Beside this i dont see any point on that referendum, i have also said it was a very strange decision.

Sure. They played games ("politics"), and the rest of Europe is now telling the powerful PM where to shove it.

M1k3H · 12 Jul 2015 at 22:37

Stretch said:
Sure. They played games ("politics"), and the rest of Europe is now telling the powerful PM where to shove it.

so if you were PM of a country where there was a 50% chance of being overthrown, you would negotiate on issues the previous government was overthrown for? or try and rally the support of the people?

and by the "rest of Europe" I assume you mean less than 50% of Europe.

Destination · 12 Jul 2015 at 22:38

Iraklis F.C. said:
because politics man, politics. The only good out of this referendum is that the PM has become an all powerful PM who could might implement the "reforms". Beside this i dont see any point on that referendum, i have also said it was a very strange decision.

I am very confused by this statement.
How has the Pm become a powerful PM, when he held a referendum, to say NO, he won the referendum, and now he is trying to implement something much, much worse?

Or is this a grab for cash prior to a Grexit? Are they trolling the whole of Europe into some free cash before they bail?

Iraklis F.C. · 12 Jul 2015 at 22:43

Stretch said:
Sure. They played games ("politics"), and the rest of Europe is now telling the powerful PM where to shove it.

europe is divided on the matter at the moment.

Iraklis F.C. · 12 Jul 2015 at 22:45

Hikari Kisugi said:
I am very confused by this statement.
How has the Pm become a powerful PM, when he held a referendum, to say NO, he won the referendum, and now he is trying to implement something much, much worse?

Or is this a grab for cash prior to a Grexit? Are they trolling the whole of Europe into some free cash before they bail?

Thats what i think, he has won a 61% referendum, got the opposition backing and is getting rid of the hilarious leftist wing. Whos gonna stop him. Also take into consideration we know a ftaction of what is said in these meetings and we can only assume whats going on.

On another note, do they keep a record of teh discussions, if so would we ever get access to them?

M1k3H · 12 Jul 2015 at 23:03

Well it looks like the media is all against Germany apart from a couple holding a more balanced position..

Freddie1980 · 12 Jul 2015 at 23:14

Nate--IRL-- said:
Last week was before Greece had its economy torpedoed. If bailout #3 is the rumoured €82bn..... Ireland's contribution has just skyrocketed to €1,300,000,000.

That is ~€750 per employed person in Ireland going right to Greece. You can see why some might feel put out...

Nate

1.3 billion Euro! Oddly enough that's the equivalent the UK loaned to Ireland when you guys were in a bit bother.

M1k3H · 12 Jul 2015 at 23:21

And... "the organisation which could take control of €50bn of “valuable Greek assets” is linked to none other than Wolfgang Schäuble himself."

Schauble proposing 50bn of assets transferred to company he is chairman of...

Stretch · 12 Jul 2015 at 23:25

M1k3H said:
so if you were PM of a country where there was a 50% chance of being overthrown, you would negotiate on issues the previous government was overthrown for? or try and rally the support of the people?

I wouldn't offer people a false choice. All their election promises were based on something they couldn't deliver.

Syriza should have offered people the choice they have today. Agree to the deal or leave the Euro.

M1k3H said:
and by the "rest of Europe" I assume you mean less than 50% of Europe.

Iraklis F.C. said:
europe is divided on the matter at the moment.

Europe is 100% united in not offering Alexis Tsipras and Syriza and deal. They have done nothing but make negotiation impossible.

Europe is only divided into those who can afford a Greek default and want them to leave the Euro now, and those who can't afford a Greek default and wish they'd never joined.