Largest US abortion provider caught on tape selling body parts

leaskovski said:
Who is to say they don't have the permission? has anyone seen the piece of paper that I am assuming said person would sign when they go in there to have an abortion? I bet they sign their rights away to the company to do whatever they like with the recovered 'stuff'.
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I would say legal smallprint is a little different, morally if not legally, to actual permission.

Besides all that, I think there could potentially be actual moral issues about selling these foetuses. If the abortion provider is getting cash for bodies, should not the donor get a cut too? And then we have to ask is it right to start paying people for their foetuses?
 
spudbynight said:
No hidden agendas from me. Unfortunately you seem to be of the mindset that because I believe in God I am not entitled to voice an opinion on anything.
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No, I think because you believe in god, you have to use it as a defensive measure to try and label people as being offensive and conducting verbal attacks on you in order to score points. You can voice whatever opinion you want, the problem is you seem to do that in an underhand way. Much like PP then ;)
 
RoboCod said:
No, I think because you believe in god, you have to use it as a defensive measure to try and label people as being offensive and conducting verbal attacks on you in order to score points. You can voice whatever opinion you want, the problem is you seem to do that in an underhand way. Much like PP then ;)
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The only opinion in the OP was "This is just monstrous."

Doesn't smell of any religious bias there...

Leave the guy alone - he created a post to show that PP aren't a nice bunch, and other people are attacking him for "underlying religious bias", or something along these lines...

If we can't all agree that selling dead babies on the black market is immoral, then we really are doomed :(
 
cheesyboy said:
I would say legal smallprint is a little different, morally if not legally, to actual permission.

Besides all that, I think there could potentially be actual moral issues about selling these foetuses. If the abortion provider is getting cash for bodies, should not the donor get a cut too? And then we have to ask is it right to start paying people for their foetuses?
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Morally, the whole thing is horrendous, but heck, this is the US of A, and nothing would surprise me.
 
spudbynight said:
Care to explain in which circumstances an abortion IS a medical necessity, citing appropriate experts.
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Although it's really difficult to find reliable sources, lets start here:

This is what The American College of Obstetricians and Gynecologists say:

Contrary to the inaccurate statements made yesterday by Rep. Joe Walsh (R-IL), abortions are necessary in a number of circumstances to save the life of a woman or to preserve her health. Unfortunately, pregnancy is not a risk-free life event, particularly for many women with chronic medical conditions. Despite all of our medical advances, more than 600 women die each year from pregnancy and childbirth-related reasons right here in the US. In fact, many more women would die each year if they did not have access to abortion to protect their health or to save their lives.
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http://www.acog.org/About_ACOG/News...e_to_Politicians_Inaccurate_Abortion_Comments

USAToday quotes Dr Erika Levi from the University of North Carolina:

Conditions that might lead to ending a pregnancy to save a woman's life include severe infections, heart failure and severe cases of preeclampsia, a condition in which a woman develops very high blood pressure and is at risk for stroke, says Erika Levi, a obstetrician and gynecologist at the University of North Carolina, Chapel Hill.
"There are certain cases where ending the pregnancy is the only option, cases where it would be putting the mother's life at risk to continue the pregnancy," she says.
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http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2012/10/19/abortion-mother-life-walsh/1644839/

Not the greatest source, but anyway:

The Tribune story also quoted Dr. David Grimes, a clinical professor of obstetrics and gynecology at the University of North Carolina School of Medicine, who, the paper said, “added others to the list, including complications of diabetes, pulmonary hypertension, and cancer, which he said sometimes can require termination of the pregnancy before treatment can proceed. Cases severe enough to require abortions are rare, Grimes said, adding that he nonetheless sees several a year.”
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http://www.theglobalconversation.com/blog/?tag=abortion
 
Burnsy2023 said:
Although it's really difficult to find reliable sources, lets start here:

This is what The American College of Obstetricians and Gynecologists say:



http://www.acog.org/About_ACOG/News...e_to_Politicians_Inaccurate_Abortion_Comments

USAToday quotes Dr Erika Levi from the University of North Carolina:



http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2012/10/19/abortion-mother-life-walsh/1644839/

Not the greatest source, but anyway:



http://www.theglobalconversation.com/blog/?tag=abortion
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The Dublin Declaration I quoted deals with these points. There is a difference between the intentional termination of a pregnancy and taking an action which, as a side effect, ends a pregnancy.

As an example one of the things you have listed is "severe infection". The treatment for an infection isn't listed in any medical journal as "abortion". The treatment for a bacterial infection is the use of antibiotics.

Another condition listed is cancer. If the cancer is operable, surgery is the normal treatment. If not, chemotherapy can be used. I am unaware of any source that cites abortion as a treatment for cancer.
 
People abort generally because they don't want the child, who really cares what they do with it? Spread it on a bit of toast if that floats their boat.

Plus the more it annoys the religeous nuts the better!
 
Q: How come if its illegal there is a website where you can order these body parts? Isnt that just plainly obviously illegal and they would be shut down straight away?

Or do you need special access to see this order form?
 
spudbynight said:
This is going off-topic but there is no situation in which an abortion is a medical necessity.
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I'd love to hear an objective argument against abortion in a situation where not doing so would cause unnecessary suffering for the child and/or mother?

In principle, I don't see anything wrong with using "un-needed" body parts from an abortion to save someone's life, as long as the parents: a) willingly and knowingly consent, and b) do not profit (or receive any other incentive) from doing so - just like in any other organ donation scenario. If I were in that unfortunate situation, I'd like to think I'd give the consent - better for the body parts to go to help some other poor child than just be destroyed.

In this situation however, I don't think they're doing themselves any favours by doing it in an underhanded fashion!
 
dowie said:
o rly

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2012/nov/14/ireland-woman-dies-after-abortion-refusal
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y rly

Savita died from septicaemia because she wasn't given antibiotics. She would have most likely survived had she been given them.

Patients ask for all sorts of things, physicians don't just give patients what they ask for.

An inquest carried out ruled that there had been a lapse in care for this woman and that proper sepsis protocols had not been followed. Her case had nothing to do with abortion, other than that she asked for one.
 
scorza said:
When I think of the atrocities that have been committed in the name of science, I pray for the day when all science is banned.
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Science is amazing, (Certain) human beings that are disgraceful little disgusting trolls are the problem.

leaskovski said:
Morally, the whole thing is horrendous, but heck, this is the US of A, and nothing would surprise me.
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Land of corporate greed.
 
spudbynight said:
Care to explain in which circumstances an abortion IS a medical necessity, citing appropriate experts.
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Burnsy has done a good job. I see you've already attempted to refute his points though.

Haggisman said:
I'd love to hear an objective argument against abortion in a situation where not doing so would cause unnecessary suffering for the child and/or mother?
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There isn't one. It is a very emotive subject though and pro-lifers and religious people against abortion don't want to be objective and will use horrid cases like this to further their agenda.

Woden said:
Ectopic pregnancy. Either medication is used to stop the egg developing, or the featus is removed by surgery.
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Doesn't matter what you say, they won't listen.
 
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