Drunk in charge

Will · 19 Jul 2015 at 11:21

Seems fairly straightforward then.

Keys would need to be in the ignition for sub/stereo to function

Behaviour of the person is questionable, this will influence the thought process on how to deal with him (playing loud music from your car stereo in an urban area at 3am...would a reasonable and sober person believe this to be reasonable behaviour? Does this show evidence that the persons judgement is clouded or impaired... Possibly impaired and irresponsible enough that he could also later chose to drive whilst intoxicated?)

Officer must have had reason to believe he had been drinking (demeanour, appearance, slurred speech, glazed eyes etc).

Bang to rights!

Iamzod · 19 Jul 2015 at 11:30

IAmATeaf said:
Now that youve said that wouldnt the engine need to be running to power the amp and sub?

Surely that all depends on how it's connected up? In one of my old cars you didn't need the keys in the ignition at all, however you'd have a job starting it afterwards as it killed the battery.

If this is the case he might not have even been able to drive it away.

Lakeland · 19 Jul 2015 at 11:45

Keys in the ignition, fine. You in or around the car that has a warm engine, fine. You sleeping in the passenger seat or boot of an estate - stupid law. It's obviously been made the way it has to catch people who try and pull a fast one, any copper who does someone who is clearly asleep for the night is a sinep<

Third Opinion · 19 Jul 2015 at 13:20

unrealrocks said:
My understanding is the law is fairly clear and quite harsh in this respect ... but how does it work with a camper van? You can't drink ever under any circumstances if you plan to sleep in your camper?!

I have always wondered this. I suppose in a camper you are usually off road on private land.

I certainly wouldn't pull up at a lay by and drink, planning to sleep in it.

Clarkey · 19 Jul 2015 at 13:33

Was watching Motorway cops the other night, they were catching a drunk youth in Tesco car park. They stalked him until he drove off so they could get him for drink driving as in their words a drunk in charge carries no weight and is a waste of time.

soundb0y · 19 Jul 2015 at 14:02

Clarkey said:
Was watching Motorway cops the other night, they were catching a drunk youth in Tesco car park. They stalked him until he drove off so they could get him for drink driving as in their words a drunk in charge carries no weight and is a waste of time.

Ha yeah I saw that. Cheeky bugger was hiding in the hedge watching him.

Although why not just do him while hes sat in the car park rather than waiting for him to actually be drink driving on a public road? If drink driving is that bad why let him get on the road in the first place.

Clarkey · 19 Jul 2015 at 14:05

They didn't, he was still in the car park.

Haggisman · 19 Jul 2015 at 14:07

Lakeland said:
Keys in the ignition, fine. You in or around the car that has a warm engine, fine. You sleeping in the passenger seat or boot of an estate - stupid law. It's obviously been made the way it has to catch people who try and pull a fast one, any copper who does someone who is clearly asleep for the night is a sinep<

I'm curious, if you were asleep drunk in the back of someone else's estate, with their permisson, with the keys, but had no driving licence and weren't insured, could you get done for drunk in charge, no insurance, no licence, and they would get done for allowing the above?

After all, if the office believed you were going to drunk drive then wouldn't that also imply you were going to commit the other offences?

nutcase · 19 Jul 2015 at 14:19

Archeum said:
And were they charged?

Yes and convicted. I forget the exact penalty but I think they kept their licence because of would have lost job.

Will · 19 Jul 2015 at 14:52

Haggisman said:
I'm curious, if you were asleep drunk in the back of someone else's estate, with their permisson, with the keys, but had no driving licence and weren't insured, could you get done for drunk in charge, no insurance, no licence, and they would get done for allowing the above?

After all, if the office believed you were going to drunk drive then wouldn't that also imply you were going to commit the other offences?

You could well get arrested for it, yes, status of driving licence or insurance has no bearing on drink driving (there are separate offences for driving otherwise in accordance with a licence or without insurance etc).

Whether you get 'done' (convicted) depends on whether you can demonstrate that you had no intention of driving, to the extent that a magistrate believes you!

soundb0y said:
Ha yeah I saw that. Cheeky bugger was hiding in the hedge watching him.

Although why not just do him while hes sat in the car park rather than waiting for him to actually be drink driving on a public road? If drink driving is that bad why let him get on the road in the first place.

Depends whether the car park constitutes a public place or not at the time (plenty of case law on this), if not then the offence is only committed when he goes onto the road (or any other public place).

The law is an ass!

inogen · 19 Jul 2015 at 15:33

unrealrocks said:
My understanding is the law is fairly clear and quite harsh in this respect ... but how does it work with a camper van? You can't drink ever under any circumstances if you plan to sleep in your camper?!

Yes, it's harsh in this respect.

I have a mate who drives a camper and he's always careful. We're in a band and he sometimes uses it when we have a long haul gig. He's been knocked up by coppers before but thankfully been under the limit.

Some cops are dicks.

Lakeland · 19 Jul 2015 at 16:44

If you're in the back of a camper and they 'try' to wake you up, let them fail.

Scania · 19 Jul 2015 at 20:27

It's a common tactic with HGV drivers sleeping in the cab overnight, if they've had a few, they are nicked even though - by law - they cannot drive as they are on their statutory rest period.

In the past when they've tried to get me to open my door to them I've just ignored them but seen plenty carted off....

Lakeland · 19 Jul 2015 at 21:11

Scania said:
In the past when they've tried to get me to open my door to them I've just ignored them but seen plenty carted off....

And rightly so, you've done nothing wrong so you'd be stupid to open the door.

andi · 19 Jul 2015 at 21:30

It's a fairly straight forward law. You can't be in charge of a motor vehicle, whilst drunk. Same as you can't be in charge of children whilst drunk, or a firearm, or various other things. Keep it as simple as that.

Like any law, it's a tool which police can use at their discretion. No officer in his right mind is going to go round campsites locking people up asleep in their motorhomes just because they can.

Clarkey said:
Was watching Motorway cops the other night, they were catching a drunk youth in Tesco car park. They stalked him until he drove off so they could get him for drink driving as in their words a drunk in charge carries no weight and is a waste of time.

Carries no weight with CPS, I think was what he said, presumably meaning its harder to get CPS to take on a case for it. I'd disagree that it carries no weight, it just adds a few more hoops to be jumped through prior to a trial.

Scania said:
It's a common tactic with HGV drivers sleeping in the cab overnight, if they've had a few, they are nicked even though - by law - they cannot drive as they are on their statutory rest period.

In the past when they've tried to get me to open my door to them I've just ignored them but seen plenty carted off....

By law, they cannot drive as they are drunk either, but it doesn't stop people.

Scania · 20 Jul 2015 at 00:18

andi said:
By law, they cannot drive as they are drunk either, but it doesn't stop people.

I wonder if you misunderstood me, they are parked up for the night having a legally enforceable rest period- usually a minimum of 11hours - therefore they are not able to drive but using the vehicle as their place of rest to do with their free time what they wish, having a few drinks whilst off duty and not legally able to drive is not uncommon.

Effectively they are at their "home" for the night if you see what I mean.

Mr-White · 20 Jul 2015 at 11:14

My neighbour got nicked for this years ago, he drove to the pub and had a few and decided not to drive home and to sleep in the back of his car. As it was a cold night he turned on the heating and then woke up to a police officer banging on the window. He got breathalysed, failed and charged.

MW

TripleT · 20 Jul 2015 at 13:45

Starting the car is pretty 'tardish

I don't mind the law, it's there to try and stop people from then going on to drive whilst still over. People's judgments are clouded when they're drunk. If everyone slept in their cars the chances of someone waking up and thinking "sod this is too uncomfortable / cold" and driving off whilst still over is high.

It's similar to why it's not cool to walk around with a knife. No-one say's you're going to use it, but it you then got in a confrontation the knife is probably going to make an appearance.

Burnsy2023 · 20 Jul 2015 at 13:47

Scania said:
I wonder if you misunderstood me, they are parked up for the night having a legally enforceable rest period- usually a minimum of 11hours - therefore they are not able to drive but using the vehicle as their place of rest to do with their free time what they wish, having a few drinks whilst off duty and not legally able to drive is not uncommon.

Effectively they are at their "home" for the night if you see what I mean.

I'm pretty sure there's similar case law but I'd need to look at PNLD to see the specifics.

Scania · 21 Jul 2015 at 14:59

Burnsy2023 said:
I'm pretty sure there's similar case law but I'd need to look at PNLD to see the specifics.

I would be surprised if there wasn't, I know of a few drivers who've been prosecuted for drink in charge / drink driving when parked for the night on a statutory rest period.

I'd be interested to hear what you find out.