The labour Leader thread...

If it wasn't before, it's increasingly apparent day by day that Labour will do anything to get back in power.

They don't actually have a set of core values. For myself, that makes them totally unappealing. They are basically a bunch of career politicians whose only motivation is to get back into government at any cost.

At least the other parties know what they're about, mostly.
 
Tunney said:
Labour need a clear message and, sadly, Corbyn is the one candidate offering that. I can see why many grass-root Labour members find him so attractive as a potential leader.
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I think that's quite key. Regardless of his alignment, he has conviction - that's an important resource. It's hard to say any of the others do - Burnham has especially screwed that angle in the past couple of days.
 
cheesyboy said:
I think that's quite key. Regardless of his alignment, he has conviction - that's an important resource. It's hard to say any of the others do - Burnham has especially screwed that angle in the past couple of days.
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Indeed,

The rest are so utterly unappealing & void of any conviction it hardly seems worth the effort voting for them.

Corbyn will drop a number of the centre votes, but he also has a chance of drawing in much of the Green party, Lib Dem, SNP & none voters. The rest have a chance of gaining a few swing Conservative voters.
 
Nutella33 said:
Depends how the tory party leadership changes doesnt it? Cameron did say he would'nt fight another election if he won the last one. If its a bad change you never know...
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Yeah - the Tories keep saying Corbyn would be the death knell for Labour, but seem to forget thier next leader could be Boris................
 
amigafan2003 said:
Yeah - the Tories keep saying Corbyn would be the death knell for Labour, but seem to forget thier next leader could be Boris................
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To be honest, I think the Conservatives have a slight fear of Corbyn which is why they are attempting to poison the well with him.

He's a far better public speaker than any of the rest of the leadership, he also has the potential to rally the traditional left under one party - to top it off he doesn't have a strong northern accent - giving him stronger southern/London appeal.
 
Moses said:
EL OH EL
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Really?, don't you think that if they move to the right they will end up losing Wales, the Greens would take a greater share of their vote & Scotland will never go Red again.

They are not going to prise the right-wing vote out of the hands of the Conservatives. Obviously if you are a seasoned Conservative voter you will think he's terrible - but that's the point, you should think of the the opposition leader that way.

Many Conservative voters would prefer them if they moved to the right, but I highly doubt they would ever actually vote for them in large enough numbers to off-set the huge losses.
 
I'll be voting for Corbyn for Labour leader.

I don't think he'll win a majority in 2020 but I don't think any of the others stand more chance. Corbyn at leasts stands for something, and has principles and passion, he can motivate the base and will actually fight the Tory narrative rather than meekly surrendering when The Sun says mean things about them.

Plus it'd be nice to have a left winger in charge.

The biggest risk with Corbyn is the chance that the stroppy children on the right of the party will let their toys fly and start a leadership challenge. That risks dividing the party and utterly alienating the base that has just voted for Corbyn.
 
Moses said:
Going to the (Corbyn) left and abandoning the centre ground to the Tories isn't the way they'll win a majority. If the supporters want the party to the left that's fine, but if they want to win then doing that isn't the way forward.
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I don't understand this way of thinking.

Surely you vote for a party that has principles you agree with.

Labour, on the other hand, seems to be looking to adopt whatever principles it thinks will win it an election. They should drop the name Labour. Just call themselves the Chameleon party.

At least this Corbyn fellow is bucking the trend. All the other Labour people they interview on TV are just obsessed with "winning the next election". They say that this is so they can "change the country for the better". Better for who? For whoever votes for them?

It's circular logic in political form.
 
amigafan2003 said:
Yeah - the Tories keep saying Corbyn would be the death knell for Labour, but seem to forget thier next leader could be Boris................
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Compared with Corbyn, Boris has a safe pair of hands. He'll win the next election then Corbyn will join Miliband, Kinnock and Foot in the dustbin of failure.
 
FoxEye said:
If it wasn't before, it's increasingly apparent day by day that Labour will do anything to get back in power.

They don't actually have a set of core values. For myself, that makes them totally unappealing. They are basically a bunch of career politicians whose only motivation is to get back into government at any cost.

At least the other parties know what they're about, mostly.
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it does seem that way desperate to win an election even if it means selling out
 
Moses said:
Going to the (Corbyn) left and abandoning the centre ground to the Tories isn't the way they'll win a majority. If the supporters want the party to the left that's fine, but if they want to win then doing that isn't the way forward.
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The 'left' is bigger than people think - it's just fragmented across Labour, SNP, Lib Dems (some of them), Plaid & the Green party.

This is why the tabloid press are already on the offensive.
 
Moses said:
Going to the (Corbyn) left and abandoning the centre ground to the Tories isn't the way they'll win a majority. If the supporters want the party to the left that's fine, but if they want to win then doing that isn't the way forward.
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You don't win elections by claiming the ever-changing figment that is "the centre ground", you win elections by winning arguments and setting the narrative.
 
arknor said:
it does seem that way desperate to win an election even if it means selling out
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It doesn't help that they focus almost exclusively on this when interviewed.

"What does the Labour party stand for in 2015?"
"Winning the next election."
"But what will you do differently to the other parties?"
"We'll be different by appealing to more people than the others."
"OK, but if we could focus on what you're actually about..."
"Yes, sure. We're looking to move the party to more popular ground, so people will vote for us and we can win the election."

This is exactly what I hear whenever there is a Labour politician being interviewed on the news these days. Maybe it's worse due to the leadership contest going on. But... it was like this immediately after the general election also. They appeared to be in total disarray then, with an identity crisis to boot.
 
Mr Jack said:
You don't win elections by claiming the ever-changing figment that is "the centre ground", you win elections by winning arguments and setting the narrative.
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You'll certainly not win elections by telling the electorate that you will take their cake and choke on it too... ;)
 
The in our face destruction of the labour party is amusing, but equally a conservative government not kept slightly in check won't be great.

A hard left party will just never get meaningful support in the UK to become an effective opposition. Times have a changed.
 
I'd really like to believe that a decade of Political Correctness has created this mess :)


In fact if all the hard lefties, proto communists, cultural Marxists, feminazis, ethnically disadvantaged, white wimmins who are really black inside, mewling egalitarians and social justice warriors could form a new party, I'd really like to see how far they can disappear up their open orifice.
Maybe they can even produce a manifesto without triggering each other.

Just lol
 
Seems that some people want one party rule for the UK. Welcome to N Korea.

Personally I am sick of the two party merry go round we have here, I would like the Labour party to totally disintegrate and give the other parties a chance.
 
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