Why Are The New German Clutches So Springy?
- Thread starter SquirrelMadness
- Start date
I'll let you have a go in my Westfield with it's paddle clutch + lightened flywheel - then you'll think your clutch is wonderfulMight as well just use an on/off switch!
Sort of similar, a mate is running a Helix 6 Paddle and SMF in his Focus ST. Coming from a standard soft as clarts ST clutch you needed to have the left leg of He-Man for that thing! I'd dread driving that in stop/start traffic.
I've had the clutch fitted out of the Focus RS which is a lot springier than the standard but you get used to it within a few days, can't notice at all now until you drive an ST with the standard clutch still.
I don't like ''light'' pedals like especially VAG seems to do.
Back when I worked at the post, whenever I stepped into a Caddy or Transporter ( Also drove various Renaults, Mercs and Fords), the first time braking I nearly went through the windshield. Clutch is to light imho, and the VAG brake is way to over assisted.
Modern Audi's and Skoda's are crap in this aspect too, the clutch too, but mainly the brakes.
Tbh, I prefer the way most French and (old, 90's) Jap cars feel pedal wise ( Clutch and Brake) to most Germans.
It's all getting used to the controls though, after I drive a '15 Octy or '15 Audi A3 from work, and get in my 1993 Rolla banger, it all feels much heavier/harder work ( but even so, I prefer that and a bit more pedal feedback than that the slightest touch to the brake makes you sit in your seatbelt or the slightest release of the clutch makes it stall. Tbh I tend to just aggressively change gears or launch harder ( from higher rpm and with more throttle) in cars with such clutches. I did drive both the first and the 2nd generation of Focusses, and can't remember them having specifically hard clutches, iirc they were actually quite light, compared to the Jap cars and Volvo I had)..
Back when I worked at the post, whenever I stepped into a Caddy or Transporter ( Also drove various Renaults, Mercs and Fords), the first time braking I nearly went through the windshield. Clutch is to light imho, and the VAG brake is way to over assisted.
Modern Audi's and Skoda's are crap in this aspect too, the clutch too, but mainly the brakes.
Tbh, I prefer the way most French and (old, 90's) Jap cars feel pedal wise ( Clutch and Brake) to most Germans.
It's all getting used to the controls though, after I drive a '15 Octy or '15 Audi A3 from work, and get in my 1993 Rolla banger, it all feels much heavier/harder work ( but even so, I prefer that and a bit more pedal feedback than that the slightest touch to the brake makes you sit in your seatbelt or the slightest release of the clutch makes it stall. Tbh I tend to just aggressively change gears or launch harder ( from higher rpm and with more throttle) in cars with such clutches. I did drive both the first and the 2nd generation of Focusses, and can't remember them having specifically hard clutches, iirc they were actually quite light, compared to the Jap cars and Volvo I had)..
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touché
A confident driver can "jump" into any car and manage it.
Not saying that your not, it's something i have learned over the years.
VAG controls are always too light or over assisted, they have little to no feel which makes them utterly dull to drive. I honestly don't understand why people like them so much. My wife loves her Golfs, I just don't get it at all. I've never driven any of the top of the range sports variants (RS, R) but would hope they are better.
I was given a 2015 A1 125PS yesterday as a loan car, and the clutch is so light that it has no feel whatsoever. I keep over-revving it because I just cannot tell where the biting point is. My S1's clutch is a lot better whilst still not being a burden on your left leg.
And anyone who has ever driven a manual knows that the biting point is important because it tells you know when to apply the throttle. The clutch bites before the car moves.
Thats incorrect by definition. The clutch bites when the friction plates make contact, which will make the car move. Even if its not much, you should be able to feel it and react accordingly. The engine note is also a giveaway - lack of pedal feel might make it a bit less intuitive but if you're struggling and stalling because of it then it's probably time to switch to an automatic
Actually, I think I know what OP is talking about.
Had an old 106 the other day, Much the same as described. Very non-linear pedal feel.
The amount of pedal force needed to hold the pedal position increased significantly just as I was getting to the biting point.
This meant that it was difficult to control the engagement of the clutch and match it with throttle position.
I can see why it could cause somebody problems.
Had an old 106 the other day, Much the same as described. Very non-linear pedal feel.
The amount of pedal force needed to hold the pedal position increased significantly just as I was getting to the biting point.
This meant that it was difficult to control the engagement of the clutch and match it with throttle position.
I can see why it could cause somebody problems.
^ I've driven a 106 rallye a few times and I can't say I remember the clutch being light, that car had good ''feels'' if you know what I mean, perhaps it's different on the lighter models ( or well, I'm sure it must be haha), but I loved that car, total go cart feel, and nice high revving engine. Brake pedal and clutch were both nice and had enough feedback iirc.
You should try a newish Punto Evo, in city mode the steering is ridiculously light, and same terrible pedals, all three, way to light.
Can't say I have experienced it but that sound as bad as VW/Skoda. The A3's I've driven were all DSG's ( which were quite nice imo compared to a classic auto).
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I passed my test recently in one of the latest BMW Mini Coopers. Got so used to the clutch. It was diesel too so very hard to stall. It even auto starts when you do stall once you press back down the clutch pedal. Required almost no gas to go forwards.
I'm now driving a petrol Suzuki Swift. It's taken me a while to adjust. Stalled 5 times in a row the other night. Luckily just one car was behind me and didn't sound their horn as I still rock P plates. They did give me a concerned look though once they overtook me lol.
Getting used to it now as I know to just apply more gas before raising clutch. Kept trying to see-saw it perfectly and made it too hard for myself. So now just apply gas first with clutch fully down and then raise it up nice and slow.
I'm now driving a petrol Suzuki Swift. It's taken me a while to adjust. Stalled 5 times in a row the other night. Luckily just one car was behind me and didn't sound their horn as I still rock P plates. They did give me a concerned look though once they overtook me lol.
Getting used to it now as I know to just apply more gas before raising clutch. Kept trying to see-saw it perfectly and made it too hard for myself. So now just apply gas first with clutch fully down and then raise it up nice and slow.
I might be driving wrong or my post sounded exaggerated. As I lived overseas where public transport was very good (and driving lessons / tests cost a fortune) I only passed my test 3 years ago, and didnt need a car for the first. I had a polo for 3 months, an automatic for a year, and now a mazda diesel.
The gear ratio difference between 1st and 2nd feels immense. Revs get high quickly at low speed in first, and 2nd needs a bit of juice to fully release the clutch otherwise it's shunt-tastic. That leaves quite a gap between the two for heavy traffic shuffling, and I find myself holding the clutch in a bit in second.
Whether or not I'm wrecking the clutch I couldn't say, but having learned that you don't need to press the pedal at all to take off in 1st, I assumed that clutch release in second is applicable without much gas.
Feel free to enlighten / flame me. I could also be talking at cross purposes to the op. :S
The gear ratio difference between 1st and 2nd feels immense. Revs get high quickly at low speed in first, and 2nd needs a bit of juice to fully release the clutch otherwise it's shunt-tastic. That leaves quite a gap between the two for heavy traffic shuffling, and I find myself holding the clutch in a bit in second.
Whether or not I'm wrecking the clutch I couldn't say, but having learned that you don't need to press the pedal at all to take off in 1st, I assumed that clutch release in second is applicable without much gas.
Feel free to enlighten / flame me. I could also be talking at cross purposes to the op. :S
This is quite common with diesels , some of the mazda diesels (especially the mazda 3 1.6) are terrible for it. The gap between first and second is huge, which somewhat detracts from the "lazy" driving style of a diesel. In my petrol, I can move in stop start traffic using just first. In a lot of diesels you're in and out of the first 2 gears constantly.
That said, it shouldn't be juddering or anything when you're going into second, even the smaller diesels have enough torque to change into second smoothly if you're operating the clutch smoothly too. Avoid riding the clutch in any gear, just learn to be smoother bringing the clutch up and balance the revs when changing into second
That said, it shouldn't be juddering or anything when you're going into second, even the smaller diesels have enough torque to change into second smoothly if you're operating the clutch smoothly too. Avoid riding the clutch in any gear, just learn to be smoother bringing the clutch up and balance the revs when changing into second
I'm confused why would you be using gas whilst releasing from 2nd when your moving already? I have driven mostly VAG diesel and can't say I have ever noticed there being gaps between 1st and 2nd.
I think your just releasing clutch too quickly which is something new drivers tend to do.
I think your just releasing clutch too quickly which is something new drivers tend to do.