Urgent reply please!!!!

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I agree, they haven't bled the brakes at all. The nipples haven't been touched, not even attempted to undo them. Go back and ask them for a refund. If you paid by card, get the card issuer to reverse the payment - take more photos as evidence.
 
Just go and speak to them to clear it up, you obviously arn't happy and the only place you will get the truth (if you can get it out of them) is there.
 
red eye said:
if I can't or snap a nipple I bleed though a union and push the piston back to get the old fluid out of the caliper. I'm guessing they pulled the res out of the master cylinder put it back and refilled it. No need to bleed even if you let it drip out unless you let the res empty.
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How do you bleed the air out of the caliper after you push the piston back without a bleed nipple ?

The need for bleeding is because he wanted and paid for a fluid change.

There is no way of doing it properly without bleeding new fluid through each and every nipple.

If I'm not mistaken that would also include the clutch on this model.
 
Orionaut said:
So they changed the fluid that they could change and charged you (a very reasonable sum actually if it was all in and including VAT, barely more than a couple of beers in terms of actual profit) for this and the time it would have taken to discover that the callipers were probably beyond bleeding.
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Changing only the fluid in the reservoir is completely and utterly pointless. It's the fluid in the calipers and hydraulic pipes that causes problems when it's got significant amount of moisture in it, mainly corrosion and greatly lowered boiling point.

This is also why you should ignore anyone who says things like "it should be ok if the brakes are working". A surprising amount of ignorance shown in this thread :(

Without fixing the bleed nipples (e.g. drilling out and replacing), the best you can hope to do is to remove all the calipers and push the pistons all the way in, empty the crappy fluid in the reservoir and refill with clean and then pump the pistons back out again (calipers on discs to prevent pistons falling out!). Do this a couple of times and you should flush out most of the old fluid and dilute whatever remains.
 
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dholdi said:
How do you bleed the air out of the caliper after you push the piston back without a bleed nipple ?

The need for bleeding is because he wanted and paid for a fluid change.

There is no way of doing it properly without bleeding new fluid through each and every nipple.

If I'm not mistaken that would also include the clutch on this model.
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Undo the join from the caliper, push the piston back and all the fluid/air in the caliper will come out from where you undid the union there will be a bit of old fluid between the piston and where you undid the union a few ml nothing major. You do it this way or try to sell a new caliper and then your back to "this garage ripped me off" sob story ( in ops case he was shafted quite hard £30 for what most garages do for free)

You don't need to bleed as you don't let the res empty your just pushing fluid though and the clutch is on a different circuit
 
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You seem to have misunderstood what I asked.

red eye said:
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Undo the join from the caliper, push the piston back and all the fluid/air in the caliper will come out from where you undid the union there will be a bit of old fluid between the piston and where you undid the union a few ml nothing major.
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You have opened up the hydraulic system and most likely introduced air.
Without a bleed nipple how are you going to get rid of any air that has got into the caliper ?

red eye said:
You do it this way or try to sell a new caliper and then your back to "this garage ripped me off" sob story ( in ops case he was shafted quite hard £30 for what most garages do for free)
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Requiring a new caliper for a sheared bleed nipple would be a last resort.
I have sheared one or two in my time and always managed to get them out with an extractor.
The OP wanted and paid for a complete fluid change, £35 + vat is hardly shafted.


red eye said:
You don't need to bleed as you don't let the res empty your just pushing fluid though and the clutch is on a different circuit
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Isn't pushing fluid through the system more commonly known as bleeding ?

Different circuit with a shared fluid reservoir, to do it properly you need to bleed both.
 
its not a sealed system for every drop out of wheel end is replaced by air in the res.
The way I described is bleeding in two parts, master to union and pushing the pistonback before doing up the union bleeds the caliper a few ml is left in the channel that feeds the piston.

A garages point of view
how long did it take you with an extractor to remove the nipple? Baring in mind that a fluid change takes about 20-45 mins and there's other jobs waiting and customers are waiting in reception, add an extra 30-60 mins for nipple delivery (if they have the right nipple in stock)

From what it looks like from ops pics it looks like he paid £30 for a top up and made a mess at the same time, both jobs most garages do for free and they attempt to clean the mess

And for your last question I suppose you got a point there but if you use fresh fluid it could be called a flush.... Cue forte rep

^ I'll fix that mess later if I remember
 
He has been shafted if all they did was suck out the fluid from the res' and refill.

How it's done these days, if done properly, is they remove the dust cover and attach the bleeding machine then open the nipple by turning it 1/4-1/2 a turn. Then the machine sucks out the fuild slowly whilst the mecanic/technician refills the res' with new fluid - rinse and repeat for all 4 wheels.

I'd take a wheel off and remove the dust cover, if it's all dry and dusty plus the nut on the bleed nipple is still rusty, with no markings all around, then I would say that they haven't done the job properly.
 
Chances are with a car of that age, the nipples could snap and mean you'll need new calipers. Turning a £30 job into a £XXX job.

Quite normal for a garage to just empty and refill the reservoir.

No, it's not as thorough as a full bleed, but in reality, this is what many garages will do during a normal service.
 
^ what good does that do though.
Unless the brake fluid returns to the reservoir then putting new on top of old does naff all
 
bledd. said:
Chances are with a car of that age, the nipples could snap and mean you'll need new calipers. Turning a £30 job into a £XXX job.

Quite normal for a garage to just empty and refill the reservoir.

No, it's not as thorough as a full bleed, but in reality, this is what many garages will do during a normal service.
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No way is that normal, particularly when you have specifically requested a full fluid change and bleed.

If you paid a decorator to remove your wallpaper and paint the walls, would you be happy if he just painted over the old paper, just in case peeling it off went wrong and turned it into a big job?
 
dholdi said:
Nipple snapping doesn't automatically scrap the caliper.
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Replacement callipers are not that expensive, If it is corroded enough for the nipple to snap the chances are that the boots will be in poor condition and the pistons corroded/siezed too.

Drilling out and rethreading a busted nipple will cost as much as just fitting a new calliper (Unless you have a Nissan Skyline or whatever)

I had just the same situation today.

(New pads rather than a fluid change, "Best Practice" is to let the fluid out of the nipple when winding back the pistons rather than force the ****** old fluid back through the system, but the nipple was an 8mm hex, rusted to hell, and I just said Nah! I did however tell the owner that he might have problems in the future and what he should look out for and he was perfectly happy with this. (This is the advantage in having regular customers who are prepared to drive 80 mile round trips every year to come back to you after they moved house 15 years ago!))

As I said earlier, though the OP's workshop seems not to have behaved in a particularly professional manner, it is also the case that a workshops worst nightmare is somebody who insists on an up-front quote on anything brake/suspension related on a 10 year old car!

I wont do it!

I always tell people that anything brake/suspension related will always cost more and take longer than you expect (Everything just gets corroded and horrible) and that though I will do my best, at the end of the day, you will just have to suck it up!
 
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