DWP lies about sanctions

[balky12]

That's alright then, we'll just leave those with poor social skills, learning difficulties and below average intelligence on the scrap heap with no means to support themselves.

God, it's like a Soylent Green dreamland in here sometimes.

What are you harping on about? If you can't organise your life so you don't need to be at two places at once then you need to sort it out. JSA is a ~30minute meeting once a fortnight. Have to have an interview over this time? Ring up in advance and reschedule it.

If you depend on the JSA how hard is it to do? 30 second phone call to reschedule.

If you can't be organised on that minimal level to attend a fortnightly meeting (that is designed to help you) then why should you be monetarily helped. No one else is to blame.

How many people do you think will elect to sit at home and not bother with the JSA meeting if it means they still get paid by coming up with an excuse each time?

 

[thebennyboy]

What are you harping on about? If you can't organise your life so you don't need to be at two places at once then you need to sort it out. JSA is a ~30minute meeting once a fortnight. Have to have an interview over this time? Ring up in advance and reschedule it.

If you depend on the JSA how hard is it to do? 30 second phone call to reschedule.

If you can't be organised on that minimal level to attend a fortnightly meeting (that is designed to help you) then why should you be monetarily helped. No one else is to blame.

How many people do you think will elect to sit at home and not bother with the JSA meeting if it means they still get paid by coming up with an excuse each time?

The interviews never EVER last 30 minutes. I had my signing on this morning and wasn't even in there for 5 minutes. My work coach seems to be one of the friendlier folk in there but they don't offer enough help.

 

[balky12]

The interviews never EVER last 30 minutes. I had my signing on this morning and wasn't even in there for 5 minutes. My work coach seems to be one of the friendlier folk in there but they don't offer enough help.

Well then my argument is even stronger. If you can't keep 5 minutes free once a fortnight then what hope have you for when it comes to a job?

(This isn't aimed at you personally)

 

[Deleted member 66701]

If you can't be organised on that minimal level to attend a fortnightly meeting (that is designed to help you) then why should you be monetarily helped. No one else is to blame.

So what do you propose? What do we do with those that lack the basic social and organisational skills that you take for granted or that have learning difficulties?

Do we just stop supporting them, cut JSA, stop helping them get a job and just let them starve to death?

 

[balky12]

So what do you propose? What do we do with those that lack the basic social skills you take for granted or that have learning difficulties?

Do we just stop supporting them, cut JSA, stop helping them get a job and just let them starve to death?

If you have learning difficulties to that extreme then you are cared for.

If your social skills are that bad then perhaps getting a job isn't for you either.

You might be entitled to other benefits, not JSA.

Quite jumping from extreme to extreme. People like you infuriate me. Bring up a million to one example and cry foul that the system doesn't work. When in fact it still probably does, just not how you would like it to.

 

[Deleted member 66701]

If you have learning difficulties to that extreme then you are cared for.

You have to be quite far up the "disability" ladder to qualify for any such benefits - and 99% of mental health issues don't qualify.

If your social skills are that bad then perhaps getting a job isn't for you either.

So what do you do then?

You might be entitled to other benefits, not JSA.

Nope. It's either capable of work = JSA. Not capable of work (i.e. disable or long term sick) = ESA/DLA. That's it - there's no middle ground. It becomes even more clear cut when UC comes in.

People like you infuriate me.

Ditto.

Bring up a million to one example and cry foul that the system doesn't work.

Hardly a million to one example. I've worked on the systems mentioned, I've even professionally vetted the legislation related to a lot of them - I know they don't work.

When in fact it still probably does, just not how you would like it to.

I want them to be fair and support the people that use them. That's not what happens in a lot of cases currently.

 

[TheLegendOfMart]

Well then my argument is even stronger. If you can't keep 5 minutes free once a fortnight then what hope have you for when it comes to a job?

(This isn't aimed at you personally)

You are just being argumentative.

A) You can't reschedule appointments, they will tell you to come in the day after but your money will be delayed because you did so.
B) When hundreds of people are going for the same job you can't just say no I can't make it to interview, they will just pass you over for the other 299 people who might be able to make it on the day.

 

[balky12]

You are just being argumentative.

A) You can't reschedule appointments, they will tell you to come in the day after but your money will be delayed because you did so.
B) When hundreds of people are going for the same job you can't just say no I can't make it to interview, they will just pass you over for the other 299 people who might be able to make it on the day.

A) I know people who claim and change appointments. As long as you give 24hrs notice? Doesn't seem to bother them particularly.
B) I'm being argumentative? I haven't said anything that goes against this?

 

[balky12]

Snip

Sorry I am struggling. So bare with me. If you can't make 5 minutes a fortnight then you must be pretty high up there on the disabled chart. I mean it's 5 minutes. Out of two weeks. You have to keep free.

Surely if you can't manage that holding down a job is going to be impossible?

As for that 'what do you do then' comment. An attempt at a funny quip, or genuinely interested.

Lastly your comment regarding it being fair. Exactly what I want. I think it is. Turn up for a 5 minute meeting once every fortnight. Prove you have been looking or attended some interviews (make a little log of jobs applied for) and you get paid. Don't have to go to stupid lengths to prove anything. Don't turn up, don't get paid. Pretty fair to me.

 

[CREATIVE!11]

In what world do people think it's ok for jobs 'advisors' to have sanction targets, and for government departments to lie about what they are doing? Only in GD world...

Yep.

Seriously shocks me.

 

[Deleted member 66701]

snip

You really have no idea.

 

[kitch9]

Good for you, for me when I've sifted through 100 applicants then shortlisted around 8 to 10 for an interview given them 1 month's notice for the appointment, I have a level of expectation that they will be focused for the hour or two on the job they applied for

I'm assuming you give warning on how long an interview will take? I'd flip you the bird if you over ran and denied me a phone call.

I employ 20 people by the way.

 

[dowie]

You don't change job centre appointments, they are assigned to you. When you ring all they will say is come in late but then your money is delayed because you signed on late and you could get sanctioned.

if you've got a job interview that will clash with it then you can change them

Are you reading anything I've been saying?

Job Centre appointments are assigned to you based on your national insurance number, you can't change the appointment, and when 300+ people are applying for the same job you can't just say oh I can't make it to the employer they will just go nevermind then and hire someone else.

The last time you signed on was 8 years ago, stop trying to belittle people with your smug answers based on out of date information.

are you reading anything I've said - how does it make you look like you couldn't organise yourself properly?

 

[asim18]

I think it would give a bad impression. I mean imagine interviewing someone and they have to be excused to go and juggle around their "appointments".

 

[dowie]

So what do you propose? What do we do with those that lack the basic social and organisational skills that you take for granted or that have learning difficulties?

Do we just stop supporting them, cut JSA, stop helping them get a job and just let them starve to death?

if you can't even organise yourself to turn up for a simple meeting in order to collect free money then you're not much use to an employer

 

[dowie]

I think it would give a bad impression. I mean imagine interviewing someone and they have to be excused to go and juggle around their "appointments".

well yes - though the other poster seems to think it was beyond that persons control yet also acknowledges that it might look bad/make them look disorganised.... well it probably does to some extent and is something that they could have done something about before the interview

 

[wordy]

If you gave our jobseeker claimants an extra grand a month, half would be spent on booze, fags, ear piercing babies and nike trainers. The other half would be in Poland.

Mods

Can we change this guy's username to The Sun, please?

 

[Deleted member 66701]

if you can't even organise yourself to turn up for a simple meeting in order to collect free money then you're not much use to an employer

That's my point.

So what do we do with those people, who don't have the life skills you and I fortunately take for granted. Is cutting off all thier money the answer?

Wait, don't answer that - of course you think it is.

 

[balky12]

That's my point.

So what do we do with those people, who don't have the life skills you and I fortunately take for granted. Is cutting off all thier money the answer?

Wait, don't answer that - of course you think it is.

Are you sticking with JSA here? Or are you trying to change the subject entirely? Why should you keep throwing JSA at someone who can't organise themselves and therefore is probably useless to an employer?

However if you are indeed changing the topic entirely, these people need to be trained / educated. Which also means no JSA...

If they can't be trained / educated due to mental / health problems and they unfortunately have no real prospects of holding a job then they obviously need help another way, whether through other benefits / care.

Or would you just keep throwing JSA at them? let them keep missing their fortnightly appointments, but still able to claim?

 

[Gzero]

Wow, massive assumptions going on in this thread from a certain corner, even after having it explained to them that their assumptions are wrong.

Maybe remove that chip off your shoulder before making any more replies in this thread.

Also, how do you expect people to attend training if they have no money to feed themselves or travel with?

Would you like to see the reintroduction of Workhouses? Oh wait, it's nearly here already...