DWP lies about sanctions

[dowie]

That's my point.

So what do we do with those people, who don't have the life skills you and I fortunately take for granted. Is cutting off all thier money the answer?

Wait, don't answer that - of course you think it is.

you mean people who can barely function - well they shouldn't actually be in JSA if genuine

everyone else just needs to turn up to a simple meeting

 

[TheLegendOfMart]

What do they do for money then if they are essentially unemployable?

They aren't disabled so can't get ESA, there is no other benefit.

 

[=XDC=FluphyBunny]

So what do you propose? What do we do with those that lack the basic social and organisational skills that you take for granted or that have learning difficulties?

Do we just stop supporting them, cut JSA, stop helping them get a job and just let them starve to death?

No need, they become union reps.

 

[dowie]

What do they do for money then if they are essentially unemployable?

They aren't disabled so can't get ESA, there is no other benefit.

if they're not disabled then pull their finger out and just turn up for the meeting at the job centre...

 

[TheLegendOfMart]

Good lord, I hope you never have to use the Job Centre in it's current form, you are clueless.

 

[dowie]

thing is that is all you can really say, just resort to meaningless comments like 'you are clueless' - or give scenarios where someone has been sanctioned when a simple phone call in advance could have helped

really - how hard is it to just keep an appointment? Not very... it really isn't hard - new regime or not, the fact is plenty of people are still claiming JSA without any issue

 

[TheLegendOfMart]

I just give you personal anecdotal evidence. Job Centre knew ahead of time, they can't change appointment because its allocated by national insurance number as to the date and time is the only time available in the diary. Appointments are now 5 minute slots and they herd people in like cattle to get through as many as they can in an afternoon.

If you phone up they tell you to just come in late and sign when they can fit you in and then your money gets delayed by a few days because you signed late, possibly sanctioned if you get the person who's had a bad day or wants to exercise the minute amount of power given to them.

You won't accept it or comprehend it. Until you have used the system in its current state stop trying to belittle people thinking you know better.

Better still watch The Job Lot on ITV, it is meant to be a satirical sitcom about the workings of a Job Centre but it is scarily realistic, especially the Angela character.

 

[dowie]

I just give you personal anecdotal evidence. Job Centre knew ahead of time, they can't change appointment because its allocated by national insurance number as to the date and time is the only time available in the diary. Appointments are now 5 minute slots and they herd people in like cattle to get through as many as they can in an afternoon.

If you phone up they tell you to just come in late and sign when they can fit you in and then your money gets delayed by a few days because you signed late,

yes so you can come in later (or in some cases the next day) that is, erm, changing the appointemtn because you've got a good reason - i.e. a job interview

if someone sanctions you because they've 'had a bad day' then you appeal it

also your anecdote had the person not able to call because he was already in an interview, now you've got him phoning ahead of time

 

[TheLegendOfMart]

That's not changing the appointment, that is missing your appointment and signing on later at personal cost.

Where did I say they phoned ahead?

I said the Job Centre knew because he got the interview through the Job Centre..... not that it would overrun.

 

[hyperseven]

if someone sanctions you because they've 'had a bad day' then you appeal it

and of course you know how long the appeals process takes, of course you must, and now whilst that is going on you have no money, but you can apply for a hardship payment, but you knew that as well, but how long will that take to process......

 

[dowie]

That's not changing the appointment, that is missing your appointment and signing on later at personal cost.

that is changing the appointement and if you tell them in advance you'll look a bit less like someone who hasn't got his **** together

I said the Job Centre knew because he got the interview through the Job Centre..... not that it would overrun.

so the job centre didn't actually 'know' - or at least the person he was supposed to be meeting didn't

 

[TheLegendOfMart]

I give up.

 

[CREATIVE!11]

This is what the job centre are like now,

A friend was moving quite far away and told them 2 weeks in advance I can't attend that day it's on day I'm moving and I'll be having to drive a fair distance.

week before he had a meeting and the advisor booked him an appt on the day of moving and handed him an appointment card. He said to the guy I told someone I was moving I'll be unable to attend as I won't even be in the area can it be changed? The guy just told him nope sorry mate it's on the system now can't change it..... and he said he told the advisor repeatedly he cannot attend on that day what about day after or day before. Nope no dice. You make it sound so simple dowie, but that is a real life example that happened to a friend recently he was moving to another area for a new job.

He had to phone in and pretend to be sick as there was no way for him to attend. Why would they not just change it? you keep saying it's so simple but he phoned up and told the advisor face to face to change it. They didn't give a toss. He had never been on JSA before and said wow are they always like that? I don't understand?

Seriously dowie you sound ridiculous arguing with people who have first hand experience of their incompetence despite not claiming in a VERY long time. Nobody is trying to make excuses for not turning up on time. They are saying dealing with the DWP has become an outright nightmare and there is no room for error or they'll sanction you.... it seems as if they try to find any excuse.

I mean it's abhorrent a thing such as sanction targets even exist. You have targets to deprive people of money they made need to survive? lmao.

 

[Tefal]

That's my point.

So what do we do with those people, who don't have the life skills you and I fortunately take for granted. Is cutting off all thier money the answer?

Wait, don't answer that - of course you think it is.

But if they can't make it to one place in 14 days how are they going to make the 10 times they have to go to work in those same 14 days with a job?

 

[asim18]

But if they can't make it to one place in 14 days how are they going to make the 10 times they have to go to work in those same 14 days with a job?

Isn't that a tad dramatic?

Missing an appointment for JSA for whatever reason is completely nothing to do with nor an indicator of your attendance and punctuality at a potential future job.

 

[Deleted member 66701]

But if they can't make it to one place in 14 days how are they going to make the 10 times they have to go to work in those same 14 days with a job?

Exactly.

So what do we do for those people?

I'm certain sanctioning them isn't the right solution.

 

[Tefal]

Isn't that a tad dramatic?

Missing an appointment for JSA for whatever reason is completely nothing to do with nor an indicator of your attendance and punctuality at a potential future job.

Given amiafans point is these people are so lacking in life skills or are so severely by learning disabilities that they can't keep appointments you'd think it would be a good indicator wouldn't you?

Try reading the quoted post.

 

[asim18]

The thing which isn't being realised here is that if this "guy" just wanted to stay on the dole he wouldn't have even told the job centre about any interview and would have just gone to sign on as normal instead!!! lol

 

[Tefal]

Exactly.

So what do we do for those people?

I'm certain sanctioning them isn't the right solution.

They go on esa not JSA.

I know someone who's actually in that exact situation you describe due to anxiety and agoraphobia.

They're on esa, with the occasional short stretch on JSA when they let their sick note run out without getting a new one (they're also pretty useless at basic things, their housing benifit got canceled because they failed to reply to a simple request to confirm

Anxiety and depression are major ones for abuse from what I've seen I know a few who get esa for their "anxiety" yet they happily go out getting drunk on the weekends a dancing on tables etc.

 

[dowie]

Exactly.

So what do we do for those people?

I'm certain sanctioning them isn't the right solution.

what do we do for the hypothetical person who is barely able to function and can't make a meeting once a fortnight? I think you'll find they'll have issues other than just not being able to find a job and JSA isn't the benefit they should be on.