we're not in a finite system, good services can increase in value, stuff that doesn't exist in the physical world can have value- intellectual property rights to music, films, websites, software etc...
Has the world's economy recovered from the 2008 financial crisis?
- Thread starter Ricochet J
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we're not in a finite system, good services can increase in value, stuff that doesn't exist in the physical world can have value- intellectual property rights to music, films, websites, software etc...
Everything can be given a value label. Nothing is infinitely valuable.
doesn't mean we're living in a finite system
'stuff' with value is created all the time whether tangible or intangible
Actually it does as nothing has infinite value.
Yes we are. There is only a certain amount of land, only a certain amount of material that can be produced each year.
Services could be almost infinite, unfortunately services run on resources, which aren't.
it doesn't matter if resources are finite, that doesn't prevent infinite growth
you'd have to assume that only tangible things have value and that that value can't increase in order for a finite amount of tangible stuff to be a problem here - both those assumptions are however flawed
Ok, give us an example of infinite growth in an economy from the start of civilisation till the present.
And this is why we are hitting a problem.
Right, so we have infinite growth of our population, how do you intend on feeding them? How do you intend on providing fresh water and heat? How do you intend to provide food?
A basic example would be something like Easter Island. I'm sure the people living there thought infinite growth was possible too, until they chopped the last tree down.
Edit: just re reading your post, perhaps you're thinking about just money, in which case we can just create it as it's basically a premise that can be created and destroyed on paper. Real growth actually needs natural resources, which are finite.
We are already using ~1.6 earths a year by some measures. That is not sustainable in the long term.
Right, so we have infinite growth of our population, how do you intend on feeding them? How do you intend on providing fresh water and heat? How do you intend to provide food?
A basic example would be something like Easter Island. I'm sure the people living there thought infinite growth was possible too, until they chopped the last tree down.
Edit: just re reading your post, perhaps you're thinking about just money, in which case we can just create it as it's basically a premise that can be created and destroyed on paper. Real growth actually needs natural resources, which are finite.
We are already using ~1.6 earths a year by some measures. That is not sustainable in the long term.
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Ok, give us an example of infinite growth in an economy from the start of civilisation till the present.
most economies have been growing since then and are still growing now... tis called inflation
that is where you're confusing things - excessive population growth is a problem, that isn't the same as economic growth
again you're getting confused with physical resources
We can still put a number on a countries economy though. As long as you can place a number on anything, you negate infinity. Why are you struggling to grasp this simple premise? Just say you're mistaken and move on.
You're decoupling the economy from resources, which in reality you can't. Unless of course you're just talking about growth as inflation?
yes we can.
nope
Why are you struggling to grasp this simple premise? Just say you're mistaken and move on.
you are indeed mistaken
no I'm saying it isn't simply tied to tangible 'stuff'
I'm talking about economic growth
Oh I give up. Dowie, it's pathetic when you can't even handle that you can be wrong about something.
I'm not wrong about this though, if you want to discuss it then fine but posting silly comments like 'As long as you can place a number on anything, you negate infinity.' is rather naive....
Yes, which at its very core is based on physical resources. If you just buy and sell the same amount of "stuff" at the same price you get no growth, correct? If you buy and sell the same amount of "stuff" at a higher price you get growth through inflation, correct? If on the other hand you sell more "stuff" at the same or greater price then you get non inflated growth, correct?
With the latter where do you get that extra stuff? You can sell a service or you can sell a physical product, such as foodstuff, oil, iron, electronics etc. the latter is produced from a finite resource. You need those products to provide the service, which is what I'm discussing here.
Name a number that is infinite then if you're so clever.
what has that got to do with anything?
Yeah you're trolling. Thanks for the confirmation.