how often after a suicide do you hear family, friends etc say "we had no idea they felt that way" or "it came as a total surprise".
yet you expect absolute strangers in a brief exam to pick up on potential future suicidal behaviour?
DWP lies about sanctions
- Thread starter The Geezer
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how often after a suicide do you hear family, friends etc say "we had no idea they felt that way" or "it came as a total surprise".
yet you expect absolute strangers in a brief exam to pick up on potential future suicidal behaviour?
Isn't that why medical assessments should be taken into account?
We all know what's going on here, the government wants to cut the benefit bill so puts pressure on its suppliers to find increasing numbers of people 'fit for work' so they can't claim benefits any more. This pressure inevitably means people being declared fit for work when they aren't really because targets must be met.
eh? unless someone says in the middle of a MH assessment "I'm planning on harming myself or killing myself" they usually wont know.
I've walked out and attempted suicide about 6 hours after having a big assessment by 3 members of the team to see if i was safe to release from hospital.
i seriously don't see how you expect a simple fit for work assessment to be able to predict something that MH experts cant.
Their GP has obviously signed them off work for some reason, that reason might be depression.
Deleted member 66701
Deleted member 66701
The Work Capability Assessment vs mental health (MH) is a bit of a red herring as you can't get ESA for any MH related issues* - only physical issues are assessed.
According to the DWP there are no mental health issues that prevent someone from working, so any MH issues are automatically discounted for assessment purposes.
*You could when ESA was first introduced, but internal guidelines since advise DM's to reject all MH related claims. Ocassionally some claims get through on appeal, but it's a handful, as generally people with MH issues don't have the fortitude to follow an appeals process through - and the DWP know it.
According to the DWP there are no mental health issues that prevent someone from working, so any MH issues are automatically discounted for assessment purposes.
*You could when ESA was first introduced, but internal guidelines since advise DM's to reject all MH related claims. Ocassionally some claims get through on appeal, but it's a handful, as generally people with MH issues don't have the fortitude to follow an appeals process through - and the DWP know it.
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you got a source for this as you keep saying it but I know people on it for MH reasons.
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I didn't know this and tbf that's shocked me a bit.
Man of Honour
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I too would like a source, although from what you said this may be difficult and so a pinch of salt may be required instead.
Deleted member 66701
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Yeah - I used to design/code/support DLA and later ESA. I worked closely with DWP staff on implementing new legislation and to be honest, it's one of the reasons why I left as I didn't want to be associated with a system that now vilifies the vulnerable, rather than support them.
As to the source - the source is me. I worked for ITSA (civil service IT dept) from 1998 to Sept 2000, then EDS (ran DWP's computer systems) from Sept 2000 to 2008 and Hewlet Packard (ran DWP's computer systems) from 2008 to 2013.
The main systems I designed/coded/supported were DLA/ESA/PIP, ERM and FRAIMS (shop a benefit cheat system). I still occassionally conslult for ESA and FRAIMS due to my specialist knowledge that HP no longer retain. I was also involved with Universal Credit at tendering stage. I have a deep and intimate knowledge of these DWP benefit systems, including the legislation surrounding them and the DWP's implementation of them.
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especially as it was only recently the government were thinking of plans to cut ESA for people with depression if they refused treatment (not meds, counselling) which would be a bit contrary to "they dot recognise mh issues".
and lets face it there are many mh conditions that render people completely unsuitable for work that doctors would be happy so sign off for for over 13 weeks.
for instance someone with hallucinations or psychosis etc
so rumour and office gossip?
seems like you could have simply taken a photo of this "Mental health is not an acceptable reason for ESA" memo sent it to the national papers and had the whole thing over turned in a storm of public outrage....
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I'm sure Von Smaulhausen will say similar, but most police officers deal with many people with acute and severe MH issues (if it's being managed then generally the Police aren't called) on a regular basis.
Some of these people are just as sick as someone who been involved in a serious car accident. Their condition may kill them, sometimes in a short amount of time, it affects their whole family and severely affects their quality of life. I look forward to the day when this equivalency is widely recognised.
Deleted member 66701
Deleted member 66701
But a doctor signing someone off (or more accurately providing a fit note stating the person is not fit for work) has no direct correlation to whether an ESA claim is successful initially - a fit note is only needed to initiate a claim in the first instance. In fact, DM's are advised to disregard the contents of a fit note entirely when making a decision and to only rely on the evidence gathered via the WCA. Fit notes are only referenced when an appeal is successfully lodged.
This is why the vast majority of appeals against initial decisons are upheld (i.e. the initial decisions have been made on shaky ground and against poor evidence) - around 70% of appeals are successful (imagine doing a job where 70% of things you did the first time you got wrong) - however the number of appeals lodged by MH claimants is a lot lower and even less MH appeals reach the decisions stage due to MH claimants not having the fortitude to see the arduous process through to completion.
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Deleted member 66701
Deleted member 66701
Quite right - I confused IB and DLA in that instance!
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Deleted member 66701
Deleted member 66701
Sure, why not.
It happened - the papers weren't interested.
You'd be amazed at the stuff that was leaked and not run with.