The EU Migrant Crisis

Roar87 · 2 Sep 2015 at 07:44

explicit4u said:
It really doesn't, would you actually be insulted if someone didn't want to shake your hand for religious reasons?

Sweden and Britain aren't Islamic countries you clown, it's polite and customary to shake hands here, if you're lucky enough to be allowed to move to one of the richest and most prosperous countries in the world then you should be more than happy to assimilate into that countries culture

Basher · 2 Sep 2015 at 07:50

Moley said:
The definition of war-torn doesn't automatically mean the war is over you know? It just means damaged by war. Syria is war-torn, Ukraine is war-torn (and still perfectly safe in the west of the country) Sudan is war-torn, etc. etc. etc.

Yes, that was exactly my point :confused:

mid_gen · 2 Sep 2015 at 07:52

scorza said:
Hold on - often the middle-eastern country in question has made specific laws that permit the consumption of alcohol, so what's the problem there?

I'm pretty sure Sweden has laws that permit the non-shaking of hands.

scorza · 2 Sep 2015 at 07:56

mid_gen said:
I'm pretty sure Sweden has laws that permit the non-shaking of hands.

Knew that was coming

I'd be very surprised if they had a law explicitly approving the refusal to shake someone's hand. Didn't think that one through properly did you eh?

mid_gen · 2 Sep 2015 at 07:58

Roar87 said:
Sweden and Britain aren't Islamic countries you clown, it's polite and customary to shake hands here, if you're lucky enough to be allowed to move to one of the richest and most prosperous countries in the world then you should be more than happy to assimilate into that countries culture

lol British immigrants assimilating into Islamic culture....if you can drag them away from their champagne-soaked brunches :cool:

mid_gen · 2 Sep 2015 at 08:00

scorza said:
Knew that was coming I'd be very surprised if they had a law explicitly approving the refusal to shake someone's hand. Didn't think that one through properly did you eh?

So a British immigrant not adhering to local customs when they live in an Islamic country is OK because the law allows them to.

But an Islamic immigrant not adhering to local customs when they live in Britain is not OK because.....?

scorza · 2 Sep 2015 at 08:11

mid_gen said:
So a British immigrant not adhering to local customs when they live in an Islamic country is OK because the law allows them to.

Yep. If those countries didn't want western ex-pats to drink, why did they make a law permitting it?

mid_gen said:
But an Islamic immigrant not adhering to local customs when they live in Britain is not OK because.....?

... it's rude and disrespectful. I know who does more bending over backwards to accommodate foreign cultures out of western countries and arab countries. I don't see what's wrong in expecting a bit of respect for the host culture back.

regulus · 2 Sep 2015 at 08:14

Tephnos said:
The reality that needs to be faced first and foremost:

- Europe is not the US. It doesn't have the sheer landspace, nor the money and resources, especially in these current times, to sustain these numbers of refugees.

- Countries like Sweden who accept refugees en masse and stated earlier this year that all Syrians get permanent stay is screwing them over. Estimates at 1% of the total population this year are immigrants. >100k this year. (Same with Germany, 1% of the population are migrants now). Collapse seems imminent to me. The populations are angry, the media and governments pretend the problems with housing, money, crime and rape don't exist. To speak out against any of it makes you a bigoted racist. The accusation is more powerful than the actual proof.

- The migrants trying to come into the UK through the tunnel are that - migrants. They gave up being refugees the minute they landed safely in Europe and discarded those countries for the UK, many of them claiming because the UK is the best and easiest - we don't, and should not, accept these scummy, low skilled people who don't want to contribute and simply want to profit off generosity.

- Our cultures are simply incompatible. Many of these people don't respect women and our laws and us telling them to do that won't change a damn thing. One example case in Sweden had an immigrant intern at a job refuse to shake his boss' hand because she was a woman, she told him he must respect traditional greeting in Sweden. He reported her and he was given 30k out of court to keep it hush hush. Is that what you want? That's what you're going to get. Yes, that's a single case, but nobody should deny even in the UK we have 'groups' of immigrants who clearly stick together because they refuse to integrate with our culture and make everyone around them feel unsafe and uneasy.

As for the UK? We're a tiny island with one of the densest populations in Europe, with social systems and welfare that are already at breaking point. We cannot handle taking in these migrants and to have a liberal ideal that we can somehow manage it is absolute folly. Get real.

For the record, I think all of this situation is terrible, but I'm going to be a realist and recognise we reached unsustainable numbers long ago and we're at breaking point, and governments are just plugging their ears. I fear for the future of Europe.

Agree 110%.

However you can't talk about it freely without being shouted down as a racist by some do-good liberal knobhead. I'm a realist, not a racist.

And I'm saying this as an immigrant in NZ myself. There's immigrants and then there's immigrants. Culture is so important. I work with other Brits, Scots and Irish. I also work with Sri Lankans and Indians. I class our culture the same as theirs, broadly speaking. It just works. Kiwis moan about Asian immigrants to NZ. Asian immigrants that buy houses, have jobs, cause no trouble and is great members of society. These people don't know how lucky they have it here with the type of immigrants you get here. I employ Kiwis that complain about immigrants. Always makes me chuckle

explicit4u · 2 Sep 2015 at 08:15

scorza said:
If he wants to live in a country with Sharia law he can go and live in the Islamic State. If he wants to live in Sweden he should respect Swedish customs and traditions. As an Englishman I'm intensely uncomfortable kissing people on the cheek, but when I go to France I do it because that's the custom there.

Okay but they're not refusing to shake hands because it makes them uncomfortable or they don't like it, it's something that goes against their beliefs which they obviously take seriously.

Roar87 said:
Sweden and Britain aren't Islamic countries you clown, it's polite and customary to shake hands here, if you're lucky enough to be allowed to move to one of the richest and most prosperous countries in the world then you should be more than happy to assimilate into that countries culture

No one said they were islamic countries. It's something that has no effect on you so i don't see why it bothers you.

mid_gen · 2 Sep 2015 at 08:18

scorza said:
Yep. If those countries didn't want western ex-pats to drink, why did they make a law permitting it?

... it's rude and disrespectful. I know who does more bending over backwards to accommodate foreign cultures out of western countries and arab countries. I don't see what's wrong in expecting a bit of respect for the host culture back.

The laws in the UK allow someone to decline to shake someone's hand if they choose to. The laws in ME countries allow people to drink alcohol if they choose to. Both are disrespectful to the host culture but are (grudgingly) tolerated because that is what is required when people born of different cultures live together.

scorza · 2 Sep 2015 at 08:20

explicit4u said:
Okay but they're not refusing to shake hands because it makes them uncomfortable or they don't like it, it's something that goes against their beliefs which they obviously take seriously.

So maybe they should have emigrated to a country where they don't feel uncomfortable.

scorza · 2 Sep 2015 at 08:21

mid_gen said:
The laws in the UK allow someone to decline to shake someone's hand if they choose to. The laws in ME countries allow people to drink alcohol if they choose to. Both are disrespectful to the host culture but are (grudgingly) tolerated because that is what is required when people born of different cultures live together.

The customs in the UK (and Sweden) is that to decline to shake someone's hand is an insult.

mid_gen · 2 Sep 2015 at 08:30

scorza said:
The customs in the UK (and Sweden) is that to decline to shake someone's hand is an insult.

Not if the person declining explains it is against their customs to do so.

Roar87 · 2 Sep 2015 at 08:42

mid_gen said:
Not if the person declining explains it is against their customs to do so.

It's against my culture to treat women as second class citizens, but if I chose to travel to Abu Dhabi it would be expected that she should cover her head up in public, what do you think the reaction would be if I politely explained that it is against my culture to treat women differently?

bloodiedathame · 2 Sep 2015 at 08:47

Roar87 said:
It's against my culture to treat women as second class citizens, but if I chose to travel to Abu Dhabi it would be expected that she should cover her head up in public, what do you think the reaction would be if I politely explained that it is against my culture to treat women differently?

Highlighting exactly why the whole idea of integration is flawed.

Basher · 2 Sep 2015 at 08:48

Roar87 said:
It's against my culture to treat women as second class citizens, but if I chose to travel to Abu Dhabi it would be expected that she should cover her head up in public, what do you think the reaction would be if I politely explained that it is against my culture to treat women differently?

But we're not talking about Abu Dhabi, we're talking about the UK. We have different attitudes to accepting some customs from other cultures.

Sankari · 2 Sep 2015 at 08:50

Is it really a crisis, or is it just few people getting impatient while they wait in the queue? Non-English people aren't very good at queuing, perhaps that's half the problem right there.

Moley · 2 Sep 2015 at 08:56

Evangelion said:
Is it really a crisis, or is it just few people getting impatient while they wait in the queue? Non-English people aren't very good at queuing, perhaps that's half the problem right there.

Have you seen the coverage of scenes in Hungary yesterday? It's a full blown crisis.

mid_gen · 2 Sep 2015 at 08:58

Roar87 said:
It's against my culture to treat women as second class citizens, but if I chose to travel to Abu Dhabi it would be expected that she should cover her head up in public, what do you think the reaction would be if I politely explained that it is against my culture to treat women differently?

People visiting the UAE understand it is a conservative islamic state and local customs are expected to be adhered to.

People visiting the UK understand it is a liberal, secular state and people are free to practice more or less whatever religion or customs they choose to.

ubersonic · 2 Sep 2015 at 09:06

mid_gen said:
People visiting the UAE understand it is a conservative islamic state and local customs are expected to be adhered to.

People visiting the UK understand it is a liberal, secular state and people are free to practice more or less whatever religion or customs they choose to.

Wouldn't institutionalised sexism and mistreatment of women be against the culture of a liberal state?