The EU Migrant Crisis

[cheesyboy]

that would be the Syria where no intervention has taken place.

Maybe look at the factors in the Syrian uprising and think a bit more deeply. What effect, for example, do you think islamic forces surging over from Iraq had? And why was Iraq harbouring such a force - where did that originate?

Some critical thinking seriously absent in this thread. Just spewing soundbites and "facts" everywhere.

 

[balky12]

Come on mate, Libya and Iraq are significantly worse places since their respective governments were overthrown.

Just writing off foreign countries as ****holes is pretty arrogant. "nicer than neighboring countries? Hardly a comparison". Strewth. No problem if we **** it up some more then.

Call it what you will but arrogant is a bit of a stretch. No worse than people on 'moving' threads describing places as not very nice to live etc. it is what is is. These countries are not very nice places for a whole magnitude of reasons. They have been for a very long time and will continue to be for a very long time unfortunately.

Unless there is a big shift in how people value life nothing will change anytime soon. A lot of that is to do with religion. Then we are back onto the subject of tolerance.

 

[scorza]

Maybe look at the factors in the Syrian uprising and think a bit more deeply. What effect, for example, do you think islamic forces surging over from Iraq had? And why was Iraq harbouring such a force - where did that originate?

Some critical thinking seriously absent in this thread. Just spewing soundbites and "facts" everywhere.

I'd say the biggest factor in the Syrian uprising and subsequent civil war was the chain of events known as the "Arab Spring", triggered in part by the release of confidential material by wikileaks. It's well known that Assad's response to the uprising was to release thousands of jihadis from Syrian jails, which probably had more of an effect than any group in Iraq. Yes, like you say, critical thinking and actual facts are sorely missing from some posts.

 

[anything I don't mind]

I haven't commented in this thread but you sir need help. If that was your first thought you are the most heartless individual I have seen on these forums. You should be ashamed.

I am sure you are just crying your eyes out. Go back to watching TV.

Of course i want the violence to end and i don't want people killing each other like any other. I don't have sympathy for crazy religious people that destroy their own country.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qy8_NeQh_nE

Listen to what assad says. I am not advocate of Assad or dictatorships but there is always two sides to a story.

Farage said this situation would occur 10 years ago, when the west and isreal encouraged destabilisation in syria. Of course Assad syria is no angel, they enter Lebanon and kill many political protesters in their own country.

 

[balky12]

You've done it now scorza. The Arab spring was the wests fault due to wiki leaks.

 

[V F]

You weren't implying it was titillation. But I actually was. Showing it would just have been to sate people's morbid curiosity, it doesn't add to the narrative at all.

The dead boy on the beach very much adds to the narrative. And it's deeply affecting.

It is always that one extra step the media have taken. It is always that little bit more.

There may well be other gory news stories in which the content is mere titillation. The recent shooting of news reporters on a live broadcast, for example. But I strongly disagree with the implication that the unshown footage Shoreham impact is a hypocracy in light of the pictures of this drowned boy.

At the end of the day, the mainstream media shouldn't be showing anything distressing. Whether it is any form of mass crashes to limbs, dead bodies peeking out below covers to this. To people and weaponry dripping in blood. Though, it seems to be what it is nowadays. Anything goes. Free for all.

As long as the media and the masses can make money from graphic photos/videos to reported tweets on such incidents.

The media no longer report the news. They make it then report it. They know how to work the public. Then it is move onto the next story.

 

[Outcast]

What irresponsible parenting to take their child onto a dodgy boat ride when airline tickets could have been purchased cheaper !!

/Stands back awaiting the flames

 

[cheesyboy]

I'd say the biggest factor in the Syrian uprising and subsequent civil war was the chain of events known as the "Arab Spring", triggered in part by the release of confidential material by wikileaks. It's well known that Assad's response to the uprising was to release thousands of jihadis from Syrian jails, which probably had more of an effect than any group in Iraq. Yes, like you say, critical thinking and actual facts are sorely missing from some posts.

Well of course the Arab Spring was the biggest spark. There are, however, a number of factors in the mix. But the West is strongly implicated in the instability of the region, the Iraq islamists being merely an example of our footprint.

And, regardless, dehumanising the refugees of the conflict as being someone else's fault/problem (or even arguing excessively about it actually being our fault) ignores what should be something approaching our duty as people to try to show care for those in desperate situations.

 

[arknor]

so desperate they travel about 2000 miles through countries with no war.

burn the boats

 

[scorza]

You've done it now scorza. The Arab spring was the wests fault due to wiki leaks.

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2011/may/13/amnesty-international-wikileaks-arab-spring

The connection between wikileaks and the Arab spring exists. I know they're considered "heros" by the current en-vogue libertarian movement, but Julian Assange and Chelsea Manning have blood on their hands imo.

Well of course the Arab Spring was the biggest spark. There are, however, a number of factors in the mix. But the West is strongly implicated in the instability of the region, the Iraq islamists being merely an example of our footprint.

And, regardless, dehumanising the refugees of the conflict as being someone else's fault/problem (or even arguing excessively about it actually being our fault) ignores what should be something approaching our duty as people to try to show care for those in desperate situations.

So there were no Islamists in the middle-east before we invaded Iraq? What about Yemen? No western intervention there, does not border Iraq, Islamic State are now players in their civil war. I don't think you're seeing the big picture here - the chain of events that resulted in the Islamic State didn't start with the invasion of Iraq, it started with the attacks on New York and Washington on 11th September 2001.

 

[balky12]

And, regardless, dehumanising the refugees of the conflict as being someone else's fault/problem (or even arguing excessively about it actually being our fault) ignores what should be something approaching our duty as people to try to show care for those in desperate situations.

It's all kind of irrelevant though. The simple fact is we can't. Sure the first hundred, thousand, ten thousand, hundred thousand, million? But when do we draw the line?

Opening our doors to them still doesn't fix their 'home'. So it just encourages more of the behavior.

I am all for helping, but the big picture is opening our doors actually solves nothing. Short term we make a tiny percentage feel safer/ better, but in the long run solves nothing for these countries.

Long term mass immigration on our own country? Who knows.

I am not saying do nothing. But that is irrelevant also because we are doing something. It's just the problem is so vast that simply relocating people accomplishes nothing.

 

[SciNeT]

Unless there is a big shift in how people value life nothing will change anytime soon. A lot of that is to do with religion. Then we are back onto the subject of tolerance.

Religion plays the biggest part, if you ever see pics of Afghanistan in the 1960's there's women dressing in modern fashions, men dressed looking sharp, people enjoying themselves, smoking, drinking, hanging out, flourishing in a modern culture. Then, forward 25 years and it's all gone. All outlawed. All replaced by people shuffling about in burkas under the threat of death from religious overlords. It's everything we need to keep out of the west.

 

[Tosno]

No abortion isn't genocide.

Though you really are nuts it seems. I just thought you were a bit slow when you couldn't initially grasp the concept of matched betting.

Now it seems you're not just a bit slow you're actually nuts: anti abortion, pro home schooling, anti fluoride in the water supply, anti vaccinations...

I do have a question for you though:

Can jet fuel melt steel beams?

Yes it is genocide.

Well it is often you talk sense to a crazy person and they are the one that think you are nuts slow to grasp match betting? What is considered fast (for you) for someone that has never heard of matched betting to know all about it?

Yes I am very nuts to be anti abortion, pro home schooling vs state schooling at 4 years old (proven to be bad) against not only h2o being in my h2o and anti vaccinations.

Since the only things you seem to care about is yourself and money, it must make you very angry that I AM probably wealthier than you.

To your question, I have no idea, I've never researched it.

Now answer my question, are you married?

I know 3 people who think exactly like this as well. They all share a common hobby. Smoking weed. Oh and also all unemployed...

Sorry to disappoint I am against weed and not unemployed.

 

[Housey]

The middle east has been full of factions for 1000's of years, nothing has changed or will ever change. We support our preferred faction, the one that means the problems stop there and are not something we have to worry about. Sadly the world has changed and blame all the problems on the West or on the people on the boats is to take a side and be stupid in doing so.

It's complex and unfixable. You either carry on backing factions, kill everyone, or appreciate that when you don't back a faction another faction we might not like as much will take over and their first act is to try and kill the other factions. At this point the 90% of the country who just want to live in their country feel threatened and leave, as we saw across Europe during 2 recent wars.

The problem we have today is we have been threatened by people who look like the people in the boats, often follow similar things and come from similar places so they scare us, we don't want them here because then they create a risk for us. Fact is 99% won't, but we don't worry about them, it's the 1% and that is what gets everyone annoyed.

When you mix cultures, religions and people you break societies and existing cultures. Sometimes that brings greatness and sometimes terrible divides. Personally I don't want more dilution in Britain, but at the same time I want to help people who in the main just want to live like me and you. The problem is how and I can't answer that question and neither can anyone else so this is why we get anger, frustration, accusations and threats.

World's horrible right now.

 

[Deleted member 66701]

Religion plays the biggest part, if you ever see pics of Afghanistan in the 1960's there's women dressing in modern fashions, men dressed looking sharp, people enjoying themselves, smoking, drinking, hanging out, flourishing in a modern culture. Then, forward 25 years and it's all gone. All outlawed. All replaced by people shuffling about in burkas under the threat of death from religious overlords. It's everything we need to keep out of the west.

But surely those fleeing Afghanistan DON'T want those type of things (which is why they are leaving).

It's not like there are legions of Taliban camped out at Calais.

 

[scorza]

But surely those fleeing Afghanistan DON'T want those type of things (which is why they are leaving).

It's not like there are legions of Taliban camped out at Calais.

All the migrant women I've seen on the news look more like Afghan 2011 than Afghan 1967. Let's remember too that when one boat in the med started sinking the Muslims on board ganged up and threw all the Christians overboard. Let's also not forget that the Islamic State have threatened to send a legion of jihadi sleepers across the med.

I do think though that any apostates from Muslim countries should be given asylum, trouble is I've not seen any evidence that there are many of these.

 

[SciNeT]

But surely those fleeing Afghanistan DON'T want those type of things, so things we DO want in the west?

So then they can apply through the legal channels. But if they lack education, resources and skills then they literally will only be a financial drain on the nations they are fleeing to, that we DON'T want.

 

[Malevolence]

But surely those fleeing Afghanistan DON'T want those type of things (which is why they are leaving).

Then why is it that when they arrive here, or in any other civilised Western Country, they immediately set about creating their own little enclaves where such backward traditions are back on the menu?

 

[Tefal]

But surely those fleeing Afghanistan DON'T want those type of things (which is why they are leaving).

It's not like there are legions of Taliban camped out at Calais.

or they do want those things, but they just happen to be from the wrong tribe or sect and so are being massacred by the other tribes and sects?

 

[dowie]

Yes it is genocide.

it really isn't, it is providing a basic medical facility to women and quite standard in a civilised society

Well it is often you talk sense to a crazy person and they are the one that think you are nuts

Well yes while I'm sure anti abortionists, anti vaccination, anti fluoride etc.. people think that others are nuts in reality it is their position that is often built on dubious knowledge or beliefs

slow to grasp match betting? What is considered fast (for you) for someone that has never heard of matched betting to know all about it?

Grasping the concept once the first time, it really isn't a hard one to understand. Though like I said now it is becoming a bit clearer why you seemed to have trouble.

Since the only things you seem to care about is yourself and money, it must make you very angry that I AM probably wealthier than you.

haha classy:

Now answer my question, are you married?

nope