The EU Migrant Crisis

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Gux said:
I will don't worry. Too much scum in this thread. For you, shooting immigrants at the border might be ok with you, but it's not with me.
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Implying I ever said that. :rolleyes: Away with you.

Caged said:
I guess in the same way it's easy to say whatever you like about other people when you're hundreds of miles away from them. I take your point about nobody offering solutions, but I don't really think there are any. Doing nothing or building a bigger fence isn't going to stop this.

Edit: Hey it's that seemingly non-movable midnight database-killing job running again :rolleyes:
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The solution is not a nice one: Stop taking in infeasible numbers and send the rest back. There is literally nothing else that can be done. You either open the floodgates to endless waves of refugees/migrants and have no homes/money for them, or you take in a reasonable amount and stop the rest, because we can't save all of North Africa.
 
smr said:
Excuse my ignorance but isn't there more that we can do to solve the problem at the core.. ie. can't the EU send in their collective armies to sort the mess out in Syria?
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I think is an important question. I think the motives with syria has never realy been made clear from the west. How can they be against assad when as far as tyrannical dictators go he is like other ones that the west seems to tolerate. They don't have that much oil and they have opened their oil fields to international bids. They are not extreme muslim as far as i am aware. Anyone can't realy expect me to believe that the west, in terms of the military and so on realy cares about the people in the country and that is why they try to help them and fund what assad calls the terrorists. In my opinion it is all about isreal, well Assad is not necessarily on good terms with isreal and any threat to isreal needs to be taken out as far as isreal is concerned. Isreal has taken in no refugees from syria, understandable, probably for the same reason that people in the UK don't want to let in 100000 people from a war torn country.

So realy the west should be looking at doing what they can to improve countries like syria and if that means ending sanctions and dealing with the country then that is what should be done. The west are in no place realy to come with any moral high ground and claim that they are this and that, when if any hint of anti-government sentiment starts in the west it is infiltrated and locked up and stopped.

Libya the interest toward destabilisation was always oil, well as far as i could see. Anyone realy can't expect me to believe that obama authorised taking down gadaffai because a) he thought it would be better for the people b) he thought that he was helping the people. If it is not about oil then its about isreali security in that region. Why does isreal care if europe has to take in 2 million syrians.

If any country is burdened with international sanctions in the modern era, it will create millions of migrants. Modern economies depend on international trade.
 
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Tephnos said:
The solution is not a nice one: Stop taking in infeasible numbers and send the rest back. There is literally nothing else that can be done. You either open the floodgates to endless waves of refugees/migrants and have no homes/money for them, or you take in a reasonable amount and stop the rest, because we can't save all of North Africa.
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We are struggling to stop them now, so how would you go about stopping them once a quota has been reached? These are desperate people (whether you see them as desperate to escape their home countries or desperate to get a hand out in Europe is up to you), so do you really think if you stand at the border and announce "that's it for this year, try again later" they're going to turn around and go home?
 
Caged said:
We are struggling to stop them now, so how would you go about stopping them once a quota has been reached? These are desperate people (whether you see them as desperate to escape their home countries or desperate to get a hand out in Europe is up to you), so do you really think if you stand at the border and announce "that's it for this year, try again later" they're going to turn around and go home?
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Struggling to stop them?

:D

We're doing absolutely nothing. That's the problem. We need to turn them back when they show up in the boats, or better yet, prevent the boats from even making the journey in the first place. This would in turn discourage future economic migrants from risking their life when the risk far outweighs the reward (right now the reward is too high because as soon as they get here they stay here).
 
Boycey0211 said:
I'm a conservative with a global view, not a liberal
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Bull ....!

I ask.........

How do we house these people, when we have our own people living on the streets. Single men waiting months and years for housing from the local council.

How do we increase NHS, transport, education and infrastructure to integrate these people. How long will this take and at what cost?

This is the problem we have our own people suffering, yet we are asked to increase a burden on our country for the sake of empathy.

I agree we are all people in this world, but I can guarantee for a fact we not all the same.
 
anything I don't mind said:
I think is an important question. I think the motives with syria has never realy been made clear from the west. How can they be against assad when as far as tyrannical dictators go he is like other ones that the west seems to tolerate. They don't have that much oil and they have opened their oil fields to international bids. They are not extreme muslim as far as i am aware. Anyone can't realy expect me to believe that the west, in terms of the military and so on realy cares about the people in the country and that is why they try to help them and fund what assad calls the terrorists. In my opinion it is all about isreal, well Assad is not necessarily on good terms with isreal and any threat to isreal needs to be taken out as far as isreal is concerned. Isreal has taken in no refugees from syria, understandable, probably for the same reason that people in the UK don't want to let in 100000 people from a war torn country.

So realy the west should be looking at doing what they can do improve countries like syria and if that means ending sanctions and dealing with the country then that is what should be done. The west are in no place realy do come with any moral high ground and claim that they are this and that when if any hint of anti-governemnt sentiment starts in the west it is infiltrated and locked up and stopped.

Libya the interest toward destabilisation was always oil, well as far as i could see. Anyone realy can't expect me to believe that obama authorised taking down gadaffai because a) he thought it would be better for the people b) he thought that he was helping the people. If it is not about oil then its about isreali security in that region. Why does isreal care if europe has to take in 2 million syrians.
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If I was a conspiracy theorist, I'd say it almost seems like we've intentionally destabilised the region.

But I'm not; I just think we're that incompetent and can't predict the results of our actions, even tho this kind of crap keeps happening whenever we interfere.

We haven't yet learned to keep our noses (and military) out, and I don't expect we will.
 
Surely all the 'let them all in' brigade will have to come to a tipping point?
It's literally impossible to let everyone in.

That suggests there must be a quota. From everyone.
I'd personally be interested in what people think this should be

100k a Year? 1m?
Where does everyone draw their line?
 
itchy said:
How do we house these people, when we have our own people living on the streets. Single men waiting months and years for housing from the local council.
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There's 750,000 empty homes in the UK. I'd nationalise a couple of houses down The Bishop's Avenue to house them all in.
 
Tephnos said:
Struggling to stop them?

:D

We're doing absolutely nothing. That's the problem.
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We're letting Germany and Hungary and Greece deal with it, almost guaranteeing that nobody will want to help us out if we were to ever need it. An EU-wide solution involves quotas, but there are a large number of people who see this as completely unacceptable. Do you think France are going to be so bothered about ensuring the 'jungle' in Calais doesn't just empty through the tunnel if the UK continues to not engage in any EU talks?

This is an EU problem, it needs tackling at an EU level. That will involve compromises. If EU leaders can't work as a collective in times like this then the EU needs to look at which countries are making up the union and get shot of the ones that are just in it for short term gains.
 
Caged said:
We're letting Germany and Hungary and Greece deal with it, almost guaranteeing that nobody will want to help us out if we were to ever need it. An EU-wide solution involves quotas, but there are a large number of people who see this as completely unacceptable. Do you think France are going to be so bothered about ensuring the 'jungle' in Calais doesn't just empty through the tunnel if the UK continues to not engage in any EU talks?

This is an EU problem, it needs tackling at an EU level. That will involve compromises. If EU leaders can't work as a collective in times like this then the EU needs to look at which countries are making up the union and get shot of the ones that are just in it for short term gains.
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You should perhaps look at the populations of Europe instead - lots of people don't want the migrants. Are you telling the govts to go against their population?

No sir, that's folly.

http://www.pewglobal.org/2014/05/12/chapter-3-most-support-limiting-immigration/
 
Tephnos said:
You should perhaps look at the populations of Europe instead - lots of people don't want the migrants. Are you telling the govts to go against their population?

No sir, that's folly.

http://www.pewglobal.org/2014/05/12/chapter-3-most-support-limiting-immigration/
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It seems sort of irrelevant whether people want migrants or not when they are turning up en masse, maybe management of them is a better option? I think we're past the point where "none at all" is workable, as I mentioned previously, do you just expect them to all head back home?

I don't think anyone has an answer. "Let them all come" is as unworkable as "keep them all out".
 
Caged said:
It seems sort of irrelevant whether people want migrants or not when they are turning up en masse, maybe management of them is a better option? I think we're past the point where "none at all" is workable, as I mentioned previously, do you just expect them to all head back home?

I don't think anyone has an answer. "Let them all come" is as unworkable as "keep them all out".
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Sending them back is a much more realistic answer than keeping them all, when forced to choose between the two.
 
Chojin said:
"An excess of empathy is like living on dessert. It feels good in the moment, but will kill you in the long run. "

Very true
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He's pretty much bang on with his points. Get a bit heated but you can tell he's passionate about it.
 
Boycey0211 said:
I'm a conservative with a global view, not a liberal
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Not saying that you are, only that you seemed under some strange impression that people should be posting in a manner that suits your personal world view, when other posters here are having to put up with retarded liberals saying that they want to welcome every last free loader here into the UK and pay for it all with magic beans and fresh air. As I say, it works both ways.
 
The other trend tends to be for the more liberal posters to not call people with views different to their own 'retards' at every opportunity though. It sort of evens out. Even if you're making a good point, feeling the need to be super unique and make a point about left-wing posters being liberal retards in a fairytale (left isn't necessarily liberal but whatever) isn't a good way to get it across.

Also lol if you're so far gone that you think "kill the foreign scum" and "I am a liberal I think we should let them all in" are at equal points either side of the centre ground, to the extent where reading it provokes a reaction where you feel like you're having to put up with something.
 
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Tunney said:
There's 750,000 empty homes in the UK. I'd nationalise a couple of houses down The Bishop's Avenue to house them all in.
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If true who is going to cough up the 7500 patients appointments and 4000 school placements per year? From 750,000 people taken in????

They are rough numbers and very conservative to say the least. :rolleyes:
 
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