The EU Migrant Crisis

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Anyway, we now know we are going to take a sizeable number of additional refugees.

Statistically, most of them end up in London and the South East (source BBC news).

Which strikes me as odd, because that is precisely where they will cost the taxpayer the most to house them.

Or does London have a lot of empty council-owned property (suspect not, given how in-demand property is in London).

Well if they are going down to the south-east then we should put them to work getting fracking up and running in that area as soon as possible. Call it a sort of double whammy!
 
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/wor...military-involvement-in-Syrias-civil-war.html

Head explosion! :eek:

I would do the scanners gif but don't think its appropriate. :p

Right that's it am out for myself sod it. :D

I love the fact that the US/west has decided Assad cannot form a new coalition government with the opposition, and must step down.

We've learned absolutely nothing. We still think we can go around removing other countries' leaders and putting in ones we'd prefer (or leaving them leaderless and in shambles, aka Libya).

Just who the **** do we think we are?
 
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Found the story for this:
http://news.yahoo.com/syrian-rebel-leader-seeks-europe-fleeing-govt-jihadis-163636165.html
 
I love how Germany have pretty much ended any illusion that there was borders within Europe. Encouraging migrants to travel through Europe without having to register in Hungary etc. Why even bother with the people smugglers, Germany might as well send their own ships and pick up the people directly.

The UK vote to decide if we should stay in Europe is going to be very interesting :)
 
Stuff like this, btw:

http://www.globalresearch.ca/why-syrians-support-bashar-al-assad/5405208

Is why I don't believe anything our media/politicians are telling us about Assad and Syria.

We've seen that our media will blatantly lie to us to support the govt's agenda, blindly repeating the official line. The BBC lies continually, and is as trustworthy as the DPRK's state media. At the very least, they have massive bias and this colour all their "reporting".
 
Again I find a lot of the opinions expressed in here thoroughly disgusting! Aptly a friend posted this on social media earlier and I want to share it in this thread as it should give everyone something to ponder.

There's been a lot of talk of Syrian refugees lately, with a lot of people claiming to be unjustly labeled 'racist' for simply arguing their case against taking refugees in their country or city. Since racial bias isn't always conscious, I have a helpful checklist that you can use to check it out for yourself.



First, a dictionary definition:
"Racism - Noun. A belief or doctrine that inherent differences among the various human racial groups determine cultural or individual achievement, usually involving the idea that one's own race is superior and has the right to dominate others or that a particular racial group is inferior to the others."
Now for the checklist:


☐ 1. The 'increased crime' belief
If you believe that the arrival of refugees in your area would cause a spike in crime, vandalism, rape or general unrest, and you have no proven facts or research to back it up, then your assumption is based on the belief that people from another country and/or culture are more predisposed to criminal or immoral activity than yours.



☐ 2. The 'not enough money' belief
This is a tricky one, because it's true that cuts to public services and benefits are causing much damage in many European countries. But if you believe that cuts to the still widely available and affordable health care you enjoy or the increased living costs in your area mean it is impossible for your area to accommodate refugees fleeing for their lives, then you believe that the (important, yet not acutely life-or-death) details of our highly privileged existence are more worthy of protection than the actual lives of people fleeing destruction of their homes and cities, death, torture, starvation and abject poverty.


☐ 3. The 'they should be helped in their point of origin' belief
If your argument is that these people should be given help to remain in their homes, and that their men should stay and fight for their own country, then you likely haven't bothered to educate yourself at all about what is actually happening in their point of origin. This indicates a world view that revolves around your culture, its history, and assumptions of any hypothetical crisis situation occurring within the framework of your current way of life. Furthermore, it implies that with zero research, you are willing to label an entire country's male population as cowardly.
☐ 4. The 'benefits scroungers' belief


If you believe that Syrian parents would risk their children drowning or starving on the way out of their homeland, and that Syrian people would leave everything they have ever owned, known and loved, just to live on your tax dollars/pounds/euros, then your assumption is that Syrians are placing "an easy life" above the lives of their families and the rich culture and history they are forced to leave behind, and that the life you take for granted here is far superior to any life in the country, society and culture that the refugees come from. It also implies you assume that the refugees have neither skills to offer nor willingness to work to integrate into our economic system instead of living on handouts indefinitely.
RESULTS:


0 points - not racist
1-4 points - racist




I hope this is helpful. If you checked any boxes on the list, have no fear. You can be racist if you want, or you can inspect your beliefs and educate yourself to see if your views could be better informed. Just don't turn the discussion on its head and make out that you're the victim in this humanitarian crisis just for being called racist.
 
So much BS, Vidar. Tell me, if you're happy for there to be cuts to the NHS or pensions and for that money to go to migrants... would you be happy if that meant one of your own family members could not receive the care that they needed?

You'd be happy to let your own suffer to have more migrants... how very noble of you.

Or maybe you and your family have enough money for private healthcare. In that case why don't you donate your own cash to take in some migrants. Not support it via tax spending.

LOL at point #3... in a nutshell it says that our culture is no more important than their culture. Stupidity! Your kind will ensure that their culture dominates and destroys our own, because you have been brainwashed into thinking our culture is /not worth saving/.

You "white guilt" people with your heads firmly in the sand. Time will show what foolishness this is.
 
So basically that copy paste inplies that people who dont want to be called racist are saying they are bigger victims than people who had to flee from war.

Back to facebook please.
 
If you believe that Syrian parents would risk their children drowning or starving on the way out of their homeland, and that Syrian people would leave everything they have ever owned, known and loved, just to live on your tax dollars/pounds/euros, then your assumption is that Syrians are placing "an easy life" above the lives of their families and the rich culture and history they are forced to leave behind, and that the life you take for granted here is far superior to any life in the country, society and culture that the refugees come from. It also implies you assume that the refugees have neither skills to offer nor willingness to work to integrate into our economic system instead of living on handouts indefinitely.

If you believe the majority of people are fleeing war and famine then you must explain first why the majority are not going to their nearest refugee camp and claiming asylum there and waiting to be processed before being given residency in a safe European country of the system's choosing?

You must explain the tens of thousands of people whom despite being admitted and processed in one part of Europe, immediately jump the fences and embark on a 200 mile walk, passing through many other 'war free' countries on their way.

You must assume that the number 1 cited destination amongst those interviewed wanted to go to and Germany being the rihest country in Europe is just a coincidence.

Oh and yes, I do believe our 'culture' is superior to 'theirs'..... Call me a 'culturist' but I think supporting gay rights, freedom of speech, gender equality, governmental secularism and non-belief in the State executing its citizens is 'superior' to alternative systems.
 
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Oh and yes, I do believe our 'culture' is superior to theirs.....

It is, without a shadow of a doubt. It is why we have created a place with advanced technology, fairly low corruption, freedom of expression, high productivity, good standard of living.

Then look at what most of these islamic-run nations have achieved.

That is equal to what we have? Please, don't make me laugh. Even the nations with massive oil revenue are extremely backwards when it comes to social liberties, free press, etc.

FFS, they still organise themselves into "tribes" and kill each other over religious ideologies.
 
Pretty simple - it's capacity +1.

Thing is though, capacity can be improved with planning and technology.

Look at the Netherlands - if we match thier population density that would increase our population from 65 million to 95 million - an extra 30 million people. They'll be lots of technological and social improvements to come that can extend that number greatly. I wouldn't be suprised if we're looking at a theoretical maximum of around 180million for the UK. Of course, we'll likely never get there as our current birth rates, like Japan, can't increase the population as it is - we actually need migration to increase out population..

The Dutch is 17 million people with 80% Dutch. UK is 60 million with 70% British. If you think that going to match the Netherlands population density is reasonable then i have to say that you have no utilitarian considerations towards England what so ever. Your interests lies in other agenda, if England turned in to a cesspool you would simply move back to your region of origin or move on to newer pastures. It does not appear that you hold and cultural loyalty to England.

Technically every region on the planet could turn in to Hong Kong's population density, i don't think that is environmentally feasible or economically feasible to reach that level of population density. The higher the population density gets the less agriculture land we have and the more we are dependent on imports and foreign aid. Sure it starts out being just a few hundred thousand a year but within 100 years that all adds up. There are significant infrastructure capacity considerations that need to be taken in to account. Especially when we have a socialised system that is largely based on tax payer funded programs.
 
It is, without a shadow of a doubt. It is why we have created a place with advanced technology, fairly low corruption, freedom of expression, high productivity, good standard of living.

Then look at what most of these islamic-run nations have achieved.

That is equal to what we have? Please, don't make me laugh. Even the nations with massive oil revenue are extremely backwards when it comes to social liberties, free press, etc.

FFS, they still organise themselves into "tribes" and kill each other over religious ideologies.


See the trouble with that is that they don't come sending drones into our land to kill off something that is seen as a threat, whereas we just can't help ourselves. Not content with the life that you put quite poetically we like the other developed nations like to show that the bully is always in the playground.
That's not to mention exactly where all of our wealth came from in the first place (African diamonds, Middle East sponsored money pot in the 1980's coz they had us on the udder at that point). So whilst your statement fits now, it did not always fit and that is (for me) where most of the problems stem from.
This issue isn't a new issue, but a shift in demographics, in wealth (just look at the price of oil) not even GWB would rush to Iraq now.

Another of the main issues is that with this finite time we are all given, we all want to leave a mark, even those x-factor candidates, we will never accept second best therefore when power comes into the hands of the wrong individuals who have not achieved awareness, compassion or empathy, we end up with this, hate, and need to judge and action.

I'm not posting to demean your post, I understand what you are saying and I do in part agree with it, I'm just saying there's a ton of sides to each story and more-so that with our finite time we choose to make our mark :).

It's funny, when I watch The Big Lebowski, and I recall all the love there is for that film in everyday society, I don't see it as love for the comedy (which some of it is), I see it for the wish that the watcher can identify with, to be that aloof, carefree but just. The missing link, well, that and Creedence :).
 
Edit - Pathetic attempt trying to brand people racists

Just wow, and quite honestly you need to look at yourself if you think what you wrote actually has any basis in reality, nice try but pathetic.

Moving on...

Oh and yes, I do believe our 'culture' is superior to 'theirs'..... Call me a 'culturist' but I think supporting gay rights, freedom of speech, gender equality, governmental secularism and non-belief in the State executing its citizens is 'superior' to alternative systems.

Its funny, the general feeling the middle east gives me is that western ways are disliked or discouraged, yet so many want to come here it seems.

See the trouble with that is that they don't come sending drones into our land to kill off something that is seen as a threat, whereas we just can't help ourselves.

Forgetting the fact of the many bombings etc carried out by certain groups from the region and such much earlier acts as 9/11. What I am trying to say is we shouldn't just look at ourselves for all the blame, certainly not all saints there either.
 
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See the trouble with that is that they don't come sending drones into our land to kill off something that is seen as a threat, whereas we just can't help ourselves. Not content with the life that you put quite poetically we like the other developed nations like to show that the bully is always in the playground.

Agree with this part. Even now we're still talking about removing Assad even tho he is widely regarded as popular with his own people. The media still brays for his removal and trial for 'war crimes'. In fact the media has become a powerful tool of state propaganda recently.

Even the rebels (who want to replace Syria's secular government with an islamic one) admitted Assad is popular with his people. And these rebels are fighters mostly from foreign countries! They are islamic Jihadists we are supporting! Does the media tell us this? Assad is fighting mostly against foreign invaders!

I linked an Australian article a couple posts back which exposes the myth of Assad as a brutal dictator hated by his people.

Now, I would be happy to take these refugees if they were in danger and they would integrate here fully. But even then what about the millions in Africa who suffer too?

Europe cannot keep taking in the world's disadvantaged, or we will eventually become overwhelmed. You cannot say otherwise. The world is not an equal place. We will not make it so through unbounded immigration.
 
Again I find a lot of the opinions expressed in here thoroughly disgusting! Aptly a friend posted this on social media earlier and I want to share it in this thread as it should give everyone something to ponder.

There's been a lot of talk of Syrian refugees lately, with a lot of people claiming to be unjustly labeled 'racist' for simply arguing their case against taking refugees in their country or city. Since racial bias isn't always conscious, I have a helpful checklist that you can use to check it out for yourself.



First, a dictionary definition:
"Racism - Noun. A belief or doctrine that inherent differences among the various human racial groups determine cultural or individual achievement, usually involving the idea that one's own race is superior and has the right to dominate others or that a particular racial group is inferior to the others."
Now for the checklist:


☐ 1. The 'increased crime' belief
If you believe that the arrival of refugees in your area would cause a spike in crime, vandalism, rape or general unrest, and you have no proven facts or research to back it up, then your assumption is based on the belief that people from another country and/or culture are more predisposed to criminal or immoral activity than yours.



☐ 2. The 'not enough money' belief
This is a tricky one, because it's true that cuts to public services and benefits are causing much damage in many European countries. But if you believe that cuts to the still widely available and affordable health care you enjoy or the increased living costs in your area mean it is impossible for your area to accommodate refugees fleeing for their lives, then you believe that the (important, yet not acutely life-or-death) details of our highly privileged existence are more worthy of protection than the actual lives of people fleeing destruction of their homes and cities, death, torture, starvation and abject poverty.


☐ 3. The 'they should be helped in their point of origin' belief
If your argument is that these people should be given help to remain in their homes, and that their men should stay and fight for their own country, then you likely haven't bothered to educate yourself at all about what is actually happening in their point of origin. This indicates a world view that revolves around your culture, its history, and assumptions of any hypothetical crisis situation occurring within the framework of your current way of life. Furthermore, it implies that with zero research, you are willing to label an entire country's male population as cowardly.
☐ 4. The 'benefits scroungers' belief


If you believe that Syrian parents would risk their children drowning or starving on the way out of their homeland, and that Syrian people would leave everything they have ever owned, known and loved, just to live on your tax dollars/pounds/euros, then your assumption is that Syrians are placing "an easy life" above the lives of their families and the rich culture and history they are forced to leave behind, and that the life you take for granted here is far superior to any life in the country, society and culture that the refugees come from. It also implies you assume that the refugees have neither skills to offer nor willingness to work to integrate into our economic system instead of living on handouts indefinitely.
RESULTS:


0 points - not racist
1-4 points - racist




I hope this is helpful. If you checked any boxes on the list, have no fear. You can be racist if you want, or you can inspect your beliefs and educate yourself to see if your views could be better informed. Just don't turn the discussion on its head and make out that you're the victim in this humanitarian crisis just for being called racist.

Quoted for being complete bile.
 
I linked an Australian article a couple posts back which exposes the myth of Assad as a brutal dictator hated by his people.

Regardless of the truth of it - events in Syria mean that his government are too busy to protect groups within the country, etc. that would otherwise be oppressed by other groups and so on - so they have no choice but to leave.

The situation is incredibly complex and its got far beyond people fleeing oppressive regimes or war (or even economic migration) and honestly EU countries need to start doing the complete opposite of opening their doors or the long term effect is not going to be pretty - at the same time they shouldn't close their eyes to it either its something that needs extreme and swift action at an international level (which is easier said than done) but seems like no one has the stomach for what needs to be done so we'll end up with a long term problem.

Europe cannot keep taking in the world's disadvantaged, or we will eventually become overwhelmed. You cannot say otherwise. The world is not an equal place. We will not make it so through unbounded immigration.

Yup numbers of displaced, etc. over North Africa and Middle East are predicted to rise considerably by the end of the year alone and if we start taking them amongst other things its only going to encourage others.
 
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your assumption is that [...] the life you take for granted here is far superior to any life in the country, society and culture that the refugees come from.

It is superior.

Try telling the migrants that life in Britain or Germany is not superior to life in Syria, and see how far you get.
 
It is superior.

Try telling the migrants that life in Britain or Germany is not superior to life in Syria, and see how far you get.

I see a way to discourage migrants from heading for Britain: start random air strikes, mortaring supermarkets and behead anyone that can't sing the national anthem.
 
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