The EU Migrant Crisis

[Burnsy2023]

Well yes and no. The DM may not be an accurate representation a lot of the time about specific incidents, but the topics they discuss tend to be the topics of the day.

If you found two Swedish journos dicussing "the immigrant rape problem", then would you automatically conclude you'd simply just found two Swedish Daily Mail journos? Or might you think there could well be a problem in Sweden? I mean, you can find such articles all over the shop.

It's not just in far-right American publications The topic of Swedish immigrant rape is a hot topic.

Which may only prove a popular perception which actually is unfounded.

Take the example of crime in the mid 2000s. We had a peak of Police Officers and crime was again at record lows but the perception and fear of crime was disproportionately high. It's one of the reasons PCSOs were invented to be more visible and combat perceptions rather than actually deal with crime. Perceptions can be very erroneous.

 

[Boycey0211]

Yeah. I should really only believe the people who say multi-culturalism is a huge success, because there is no other viewpoint that isn't racist. Am I right?

I'm sorry for being such a massive racist. You know I just thought - if I converted to Islam this would be such a non-issue!

no one is calling you racist, just asked for actual evidence to back up quoted stats.

If the only thing you can do when asked to provide it is hint at being called racist then it says a lot really.

For the record, wiki is also publically editable so stats from there are shaky at best. The lads at work changed one this week for a laugh to say that Sarah Harding from girls aloud was sleeping with the little ginger guy at work.

 

[FoxEye]

For reference I don't have an issue with Wiki but it's only as good as the sources it cites. That whole part is cited as coming from http://www.thelocal.se/20051214/2683

I believe this references the report that I linked to earlier. This does give the impression that people not born in Sweden or from parents that aren't Swedish are disproportionately suspected of offences. However, it's hard to evaluate the methodology and therefore trustworthiness of the statistic for the reasons I mentioned in the previous post. It's also 10 years old and that must be taken into account.

So its status is "plausible" rather than "busted". Just for clarity.

And it's old, yes. Now if the Swedish authorities stopped producing statistics of nationality or immigration status related to crime, there would be absolutely no way to make a newer, more accurate report to satisfy all doubters.

And by all accounts, they no longer publish that data. Given that they charged a man who tried to use stats to come to the same conclusion with a "hate crime" against islam, I doubt they have much interest releasing data which could damage their programme of mass immigration.

That is the conclusion that a lot of people have come to. I don't see it as being unreasonable.

 

[Burnsy2023]

So its status is "plausible" rather than "busted". Just for clarity.

That status is "impossible to say with the information available"

And it's old, yes. Now if the Swedish authorities stopped producing statistics of nationality or immigration status related to crime, there would be absolutely no way to make a newer, more accurate report to satisfy all doubters.

Indeed, but "I don't know" is also a very valid position when no reliable data exists either way.

And by all accounts, they no longer publish that data. Given that they charged a man who tried to use stats to come to the same conclusion with a "hate crime" against islam, I doubt they have much interest releasing data which could damage their programme of mass immigration.

That is the conclusion that a lot of people have come to. I don't see it as being unreasonable.

That conclusion wouldn't be based on evidence but on personal bias which whilst I admit influences me, I try and avoid.

 

[Caged]

Not having the figures isn't an excuse to make them up, although I think the bigger problem was reporting estimated figures from what seems to be a reasonably well known blog for making up figures as fact.

Do you have any more on the person charged with a hate crime for presenting statistics?

 

[FoxEye]

Do you have any more on the person charged with a hate crime for presenting statistics?

http://chersonandmolschky.com/2014/05/11/swedish-politician-fined-hate-speech-islam/

Story is summarised there, and in countless other places. I'm sorry I do not know if any of these sites have bias for or against immigration. I just arrive there via google.

Court decided that whether or not Hess had proof of his allegations, did not matter. Simply suggesting that muslims were more likely to be rapists was enough to be charged with hate crime.

Again, the court ruled that having statistical evidence did not matter and did not make him innocent of hate crime.

Also this little gem supports earlier statements:

This includes official figures from the National Council, which show that men from North Africa and Iraq are involved in rapes 23 and 20 times more often than Swedes.

 

[davisdavid]

The Sweden argument is a valid one even if there isn't agreement over the 77.6% figure. Sweden accepted high levels of immigration in the 60's and 70's under the proviso that the immigrants would work, earn their money and then return home to their families. This worked well for a while but soon enough they started to flood in their droves, bringing families and reproducing like rabbits. The Muslim community in Malmo is now over 20% which comprises of complete no-go areas for non-Muslims and there has been over 25 attacks since the turn of the year within Sweden, predominantly from the Muslim community on ethnic Swedes.

The Far Right party (Sweden Democrats) now garners over 20% of the public vote, not dissimilar to the traction other Far Right parties are gaining in Europe and that support is only going to increase as the status quo remains unchanged.

In my dealings with the Swedes (and yes this is down to perception) they are generally a tolerant group, much like the Brits but they are already simmering below breaking point and the UK is in a similar position.

Whilst there is undoubtedly a crisis and humanitarian issue there is no requirement to house and provide welfare to refugees on home soil for any EU nation, if Germany are so hell bent on housing so many then more fool them. IS have without a shadow of doubt managed to move people into EU cities without challenge and will wreak havoc over the coming months.

All of these little community groups welcoming them into the EU and providing all the items, cash and compassion that our own homeless communities should have had decades ago just smacks of pathetic, media fuelled hypocrisy and they are effectively aiding IS.

I won't apologise for my views though I will apologise if people find them aggressive.

 

[Boycey0211]

http://chersonandmolschky.com/2014/05/11/swedish-politician-fined-hate-speech-islam/

Story is summarised there, and in countless other places. I'm sorry I do not know if any of these sites have bias for or against immigration. I just arrive there via google.

Court decided that whether or not Hess had proof of his allegations, did not matter. Simply suggesting that muslims were more likely to be rapists was enough to be charged with hate crime.

Again, the court ruled that having statistical evidence did not matter and did not make him innocent of hate crime.

Also this little gem supports earlier statements:

Having read it that really is a bizarre case then, using the same logic would mean a lot of posters in this thread would get prosecuted in Sweden.

In order for the statement to be classified as “objective criticism” Hess would have had to refer to any relevant research directly in the Facebook post.

 

[sityeuropa]

If Muslims got 50% of the population in the UK. Can anyone say that there wouldn't be changes to law? You can't.

Multiculturalism of different religions only works when it's a minority. As soon as them numbers even up there will be trouble ahead.

 

[Caged]

The Sweden argument is a valid one even if there isn't agreement over the 77.6% figure. Sweden accepted high levels of immigration in the 60's and 70's under the proviso that the immigrants would work, earn their money and then return home to their families. This worked well for a while but soon enough they started to flood in their droves, bringing families and reproducing like rabbits. The Muslim community in Malmo is now over 20% which comprises of complete no-go areas for non-Muslims and there has been over 25 attacks since the turn of the year within Sweden, predominantly from the Muslim community on ethnic Swedes.

The Far Right party (Sweden Democrats) now garners over 20% of the public vote, not dissimilar to the traction other Far Right parties are gaining in Europe and that support is only going to increase as the status quo remains unchanged.

In my dealings with the Swedes (and yes this is down to perception) they are generally a tolerant group, much like the Brits but they are already simmering below breaking point and the UK is in a similar position.

Whilst there is undoubtedly a crisis and humanitarian issue there is no requirement to house and provide welfare to refugees on home soil for any EU nation, if Germany are so hell bent on housing so many then more fool them. IS have without a shadow of doubt managed to move people into EU cities without challenge and will wreak havoc over the coming months.

All of these little community groups welcoming them into the EU and providing all the items, cash and compassion that our own homeless communities should have had decades ago just smacks of pathetic, media fuelled hypocrisy and they are effectively aiding IS.

I won't apologise for my views though I will apologise if people find them aggressive.

I can see where the views are coming from and it is no doubt a concern that a lot of people hold. I don't buy too much into the argument that if we weren't doing anything for the refugees/migrants that we'd suddenly start treating our own like something higher than scum, though. The Daily Mash article linked earlier pretty much nailed that one, as they tend to do. You only have to look at the response threads about welfare manage to rack up in here to see that there exists a 'FYGM' attitude in a lot of people.

 

[phil675]

If Muslims got 50% of the population in the UK. Can anyone say that there wouldn't be changes to law? You can't.

Multiculturalism of different religions only works when it's a minority. As soon as them numbers even up there will be trouble ahead.

If they can take a whole area and start electing their own MPs it will legitimize their extreme ways. It's starting already with stuff like Tower Hamlets shenanigans.

 

[gettothechopper]

If Muslims got 50% of the population in the UK.

Can anyone say that there wouldn't be changes to law? You can't.

Multiculturalism of different religions only works when it's a minority. As soon as them numbers even up there will be trouble ahead.

4.5% at moment

I'm more worried about the upto 11% of UK that are vegetarian! Imagine that !
Would be savage

 

[FoxEye]

If Muslims got 50% of the population in the UK. Can anyone say that there wouldn't be changes to law? You can't.

Multiculturalism of different religions only works when it's a minority. As soon as them numbers even up there will be trouble ahead.

I think critical mass would be below 50%. And by that, I mean the numbers required for a hostile take over.

I do not believe that every muslim in this country would participate in such an uprising - I merely believe that should such an uprising begin, they would not oppose it.

I believe that "moderate" muslims would do nothing whilst the extremists took over. I certainly do not think they would risk their lives to fight with us.

For this I present no evidence at all. But I think it is nonsense to think any muslim would ever fight on our side against a muslim take over.

 

[sityeuropa]

Hopefully the vast majority of Muslims in the UK will start thinking for themselves and ditch their religion.

Smash the TV with space and evolution TV programmes to brainwash the masses for the good.

Seriously hope we have more activists like Richard Dawkins and Lawrence Krauss ridiculing religion as it should be ridiculed. This is the only route for world peace.

 

[Boycey0211]

If Muslims got 50% of the population in the UK.

Can anyone say that there wouldn't be changes to law? You can't.

Multiculturalism of different religions only works when it's a minority. As soon as them numbers even up there will be trouble ahead.

Correct, however:

In the 2011 Census, Christianity was the largest religion, with 33.2 million people (59.3 per cent of the population). The second largest religious group were Muslims with 2.7 million people (4.8 per cent of the population).

So assuming an increase over the last 4 years from when that data was collected (over the last 10 years it has doubled in offical data, so lets be over cautious) and say its at 10% now, that means we need about another 17 million muslims to make that over 50% by my calculations...

stats and info from http://www.ons.gov.uk/ons/rel/censu...ure-of-religious-affiliation-over-last-decade

 

[Caged]

It's sounding like that scene from In Bruges again

 

[Deleted member 66701]

If Muslims got 50% of the population in the UK.

I don't think we're going to get 61 million Muslims move here.

 

[sityeuropa]

I don't think we're going to get 61 million Muslims move here.

A couple of generations may do it internally.

 

[Boycey0211]

A couple of generations may do it internally.

lol wat

 

[FoxEye]

If they can take a whole area and start electing their own MPs it will legitimize their extreme ways. It's starting already with stuff like Tower Hamlets shenanigans.

Yes I was going to post something similar. I can't remember where and atm I can't be arsed to search

But I remember reading allegations that certain muslim councillors in one area were showing considerable bias towards funding muslim-centric projects. All you need is to elect more and more muslim councillors, and you can start pushing a muslim agenda in this country *legitimately*, via our own democratic processes!

But that's kind of obvious, really. The more muslims we take in, the more their views will be represented. I can't argue that that's wrong, but I can argue that their views and our views are diametrically opposed.