I need a DRONE for a special job

TBirdUK

TBirdUK

TBirdUK

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Joined
9 Jul 2005
Posts
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High Wycombe
Does anyone know if there is a drone I can put in the hover, at different heights, over a single spot, that will then record the wind/turbulence (by working it out from the adjustments it has to make to remain at the same spot/height)?

Also, is there a company out there that will do this and provide the raw data and an analysis?
 
I think you need a weather balloon with appropriate instruments?

Quite possible you could fly with gps fix and attach a weather station though.
 
Thanks for the suggestion, I thought of a balloon but it doesnt really fly and a tethered weather balloon wont really tell the turbulence where a drone, flying a gps fix, should be able to record what it has to do to fly that fix.
 
Yep, a weather balloon is what you need. Although i guess you want it tethered to keep altitude?


You want something like this, so it stays in their air if its windy rather than being blown horizontally when tethered http://www.allsopp.co.uk/
 
Why are you measuring turbulence? Seeing as a lot of it would be thermic when it's sunny it's entirely dependent on what's upwind of your measurements.

I presume you are working within the boundary layer.
 
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What do you mean by turbulence? Convection? What resolution do you want and what units are you expecting to measure in? What do you want the analysis to show? What is the application?
 
I want to measure the effect of building induced turbulence on a runway approach, a tethered balloon would impact flying as it would have to remain there for a period of time whereas a drone could be positioned, when the wind is right for the test, then moved out of the way to allow runway use. There are a lot of theoretical models, but I want some actual data.

I also want to be able to move the geographical position easily so I can cover several different areas in the same test.
 
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TBirdUK said:
I want to measure the effect of building induced turbulence on a runway approach, a tethered balloon would impact flying as it would have to remain there for a period of time whereas a drone could be positioned, when the wind is right for the test, then moved out of the way to allow runway use. There are a lot of theoretical models, but I want some actual data.
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I can tell you from experience that structures upwind of your landing approach are never a good thing if there's wind! :p Rotor is evil!

Interesting project though. I think in the past people have erected towers with streamers/smoke machines or something similar. Static though which isn't what you want.
 
LIDAR has been used for that application but I'm guessing the budget doesn't stretch. What utilisation does the runway typically have? Anythng more than a handful of movements per hour will make it a difficult task with a drone. Also, if this work is for commercial gain you will have to operate your drone with a permission from the CAA or employ an operator with a permission.
 
TBirdUK said:
Does anyone know if there is a drone I can put in the hover, at different heights, over a single spot, that will then record the wind/turbulence (by working it out from the adjustments it has to make to remain at the same spot/height)?

Also, is there a company out there that will do this and provide the raw data and an analysis?
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I have a contact in commercial UAS, he has never spoke of this type of use, mostly inspection/imagary but i dont imagine its a particularly difficult application, with the right sensor payload i dont see why this wouldnt be acheiveable, i could try and reach out to him if you have a reasonable budget.

I think the big problem here would be that you are want to put a UAV on a runway approach, i can see this being a big issue with airspace management.
which from what ive heard is a huge issue at the moment.

either way if you are interested, give me a shout on trust i'll forward your request/details, he would be in a better position to say if its possible or not.

**MODS if this violates any rules just give me a shout, i will delete, not trying to promote any businesses or anything just trying to best answer the OP request**
 
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As a commercial UAV operator there a few problems with this. The main one being wind; you want to use something to measure wind that doesn't operate well in wind. It's akin to the problems with using drones to inspect wind turbines; they're inherently in windy places.

Any commercial use, which this is, will need to be permitted by the CAA and that is based on an operations manual which has to detail maximum wind speed. This is based on our craft manufacturers guidelines - ours is 15mph - and even a custom built one wouldn't cope well in anything more than that. Flying, knowingly, in conditions which could exceed this would invalidate the permissions and therefore your insurance too.

That leads onto the second point: even within limits, if you're pushing the envelope you're just asking for a failure. I certainly wouldn't want to risk our £10,000 craft by knowingly putting it in a situation it will be struggling to hover in.

The other issues are less so but low flight time, altitude and airspace restrictions are a few others.
 
Airspace management and CAA / operator permission wont be an issue, I am the airport manager and our airspace is protected. Budget is flexible, but what I am trying to do is show and then use a new approach to measuring a potential hazard.

Please email me in trust, if allowed, this is not for commercial gain in any way as the airport is not a commercial one and I am just trying to prove a theory with the use of new technology.
 
Am interested in the LIDAR approach, seems HK airport has a system that measures what I'm looking for but this will be an installation, not portable and temporary which is what I need, just to prove the theory, once proven then it wont be required.

Russinating - thanks for the info, I am looking for a system that will show turbulence (if any) caused by a building/structure over a spread of 0 - 30kts, although less will give an indication, it might not be enough to prove the theory.

Google is my friend for a change, Manchester and Heathrow have permanent systems but I am still more interested in using the drone approach as a temporary, cheaper alternative to prove the theory.
 
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The theorey is proven in practice and there are many examples. Heathrow 27R approach has an associated warning for south westerly winds in the I-AIP aerodrome entry (http://www.ead.eurocontrol.int/eadb...FXUS/EN/AIP/AD/EG_AD_2_EGLL_en_2015-09-17.pdf - Page 21 4a). From experience, Befast Aldergrove (EGAA) runway 07 approach used to have an AIP entry referring to the turbulence generated by the buildings to the north of the threshold, and it was very apparent when approaching and flaring. There are many more examples.
 
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I've done quite a bit around drones.

Companies like Sky Futures etc all have drones for commercial purposes such as inspection of gas flares, checking road conditions in open cast mines etc by using different payloads.

The commercial guys all use UAV pilots and those with pilot qualifications to prevent issues such as airspace incidents. There's also insurance too - particularly if the drone meets conditions it can't cater for - and ends up in an aircraft engine.

As for position holding - standard GPS may not be high enough definition, however there are higher resolution GPS systems (farm tractors use this for autopilot for ploughing straight in fields).

The main issue I see is that in order to experience the turbulence, the drone has to be in the path of the plane.. otherwise you're measuring possible rather than actual conditions on the flight path.
 
Its not turbulence from aircraft, it the turbulence created by wind going over buildings near the threshold I am looking to measure.
 
TBirdUK said:
Its not turbulence from aircraft, it the turbulence created by wind going over buildings near the threshold I am looking to measure.
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Maybe better using triangulation transponders on the buildings in 3D.

You could use optical positioning relative to the building if you're using lasers to range find but to get any real precision/accuracy the lenses will be quite large/heavy/delicate. Same for optical flow.

Alternatively using radar.. but then you're into radio planning if it's got any form of real power..
 
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