Light not turning off?

NoobCannon said:
edit - just seen your edit and no they shouldn't, wire them colour to colour, your back feeding voltage down the neutral at the moment

second edit- make sure theres some kind of separation between the live and neutral aswell and its not one continuous terminal block
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Apologies for the noob question but how do I do that? If I wire it colour to colour next to each other should that be ok? Don't want to blow anything as my electrical knowledge is lacking!

Participant said:
In the photo of your switch, there's a cable to the right that goes into the ceiling...what's that?
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That as far as I am aware is the power feeding the lights and electrics in the garage which is behind this little store...

Participant said:
Also there's a junction box or something between the switch and the ceiling rose, find it and it's possible the permanent live has come loose and made contact with the switched live terminal.
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How do I go about locating it? Can't seem to pull down the cables in the ceiling too far!
 
skaif said:
Apologies for the noob question but how do I do that? If I wire it colour to colour next to each other should that be ok? Don't want to blow anything as my electrical knowledge is lacking!
!
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it looks from the picture that there is a separation so unwire the brown and blue from the light fitting and wire them brown next to brown and blue next to blue.

remember to turn the power off.
 
skaif said:
Should it not look something like this one? (stock image from googles)
http://content5.videojug.com/92/92fee424-9aa3-38f3-83a1-ff0008cce289/how-to-wire-pendant-light-fixtures.WidePlayer.jpg?v2[IMG][/QUOTE]

Don't worry about what they should look like. Different scenarios = different wiring.

You need to find where the cable goes from your ceiling rose.
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Participant said:
"Back feeding voltage down the neutral"? That's not the issue. A cable does not know what colour it is and refuse to work if it's not mated to another of the same colour. It does not refuse to behave as a neutral unless it is coloured blue.

At worst it's mildly confusing, but it's not the issue.
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apologies but I don't understand your response. if you have a live from the switch connected to a neutral at the rose you are feeding voltage back down the neutral.

I don't profess to understand house electrics however I am a street electrician working for TFL installing traffic light junctions and our system works as 1 neutral and a switched live. [well it used to now we run -48v systems] backfeeding the neutral as I described above causes half glow's and other associated problems within our systems.
 
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skaif said:
How do I go about locating it? Can't seem to pull down the cables in the ceiling too far!
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What's above the rose? Can you access the void between the ceiling and the floor above? Can you take the carpets / floorboards up to see this area?

NoobCannon said:
apologies but I don't understand your response. if you have a live from the switch connected to a neutral at the rose you are feeding voltage back down the neutral
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But he's not connected a live at the switch to a neutral at the rose, that would create a short circuit and the circuit breaker would shut everything off.

You can't say he's connected live to neutral just from looking at the colour of the cables!
 
Participant said:
But he's not connected a live at the switch to a neutral at the rose, that would create a short circuit and the circuit breaker would shut everything off.

You can't say he's connected live to neutral just from looking at the colour of the cables!
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no your right you cannot but if it was in the situation id like to assume that whoever wired it originally had no reason to wire a colour generally associated with neutral to a generally associated with positive colour.

hence my advice to change it over. as you say the worst thing that could happen is that it trips the RCD

this was without knowing the full story, maybe the light hasn't worked and hes just added a bulb and its stuck on for example.

after re reading that the garage is behind the store id look for a switch in there.
 
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Really appreciate the help here guys - just to point out, the house is pre 1900's so pretty old, the gentlemen here before was a bit of a diyer and had his own B&B running in it so did most of it himself, the light has been working fine for the last 18 years we have been here with no issues, just randomly started happening a few days ago.
My brother tried to fix it by smashing the old switch in which obvs broke it so new switch was put in.

Fast forward to now.
FwiBrWfh.jpg


That's done and the good news is that the screwdriver voltage lighty uppy thing does not light up when the brown cable is touched but does with the blue!

The switch however, still shows lights on both black and red :(
 
Participant said:
What's above the rose? Can you access the void between the ceiling and the floor above? Can you take the carpets / floorboards up to see this area?
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Above it is the upstairs loo with a hard tiled floor so can't get there without ripping that part of the floor out!
 
skaif said:
Bulb lights up, despite switch not being wired :( :confused:
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Did that switch used to turn the light on and off? It all seems very weird.

The live touching somewhere else is starting to sound more plausable. Which rcd are you turning off do you have one for upstairs lights and one for downstairs lights?

When you switch the rcd for that light off what happens to the garage lights
 
NoobCannon said:
Did that switch used to turn the light on and off? It all seems very weird.

The live touching somewhere else is starting to sound more plausable. Which rcd are you turning off do you have one for upstairs lights and one for downstairs lights?

When you switch the rcd for that light off what happens to the garage lights
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It is bloody weird! It's confusing the hell out of me! As I said earlier, the switch and light have been fine for years with no issue...

I have a box under the stairs which controls the downstairs lights, thats the one I am using to break the feed.

The RCD does not affect the garage lights or power, that seems to be on another one...
 
skaif said:
It is bloody weird! It's confusing the hell out of me! As I said earlier, the switch and light have been fine for years with no issue...

I have a box under the stairs which controls the downstairs lights, thats the one I am using to break the feed.

The RCD does not affect the garage lights or power, that seems to be on another one...
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take a picture of the "box" please, assuming its not the main RCD your talking about.

you need to as the other guy said find out where that feed for the light is coming from so need to trace that cable
 
Ok the light not being wired loop at the fitting is bad luck, 2 options left now

1 - trace where the cable goes back to a junction box which if your lucky could be just above the fitting its worth taking the pendant base down and poking around in hole to see if it is anywhere nearby - could even cut the hole abit bigger and then put a bigger light over the hole afterwards if necessary etc - because its tiled floor above its better to leave that alone and cut into ceiling to access - try between switch and pendant should be able to see the wire and maybe jb is there maybe not - could cut a square access whole in the plasterboard and the use wooden battens to screw it back up into the hole - the artex may contain asbestos depending on age of house - inspection camera, inspection mirror or poke phone into hole once big enough and take pics/video to see whats going on 360 degrees

2 - if above fails or you dont fancy damaging ceiling too much or cos of asbestos etc then see where the nearest electrical supply is - think i can see 2 cables in your pics parallel to the switch wire or if you have a socket on any of the surrounding walls - you could cut into these use a fuse spur and rewire to light in surface trunking or clipped - this option is basically cutting your losses and rewiring rather than pulling the place apart to fix the old wiring

Only concern with option 2 is leaving a faulty cable present - ideally you need to find where the feed comes from and disconnect it - i would guess this light is end of line as it might not be original light but added on later so disconnecting it shouldn't effect any of the main house lights i hope - what rooms are next to the store - if pendants unscrew the rose and see if 1 has an extra cable leaving or if not obvious will need to test which goes to the store etc

Ps. was the consumer unit DIY - the circuits arent split correctly across the 2 RCDs, maybe the 1 circuit of the left was causing the RCD to trip so they left it on its own rather than fix the issue
 
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