Alex Salmond: A second Scottish referendum is inevitible

lovelyhead · 24 Sep 2015 at 17:06

KillBoY_UK said:
For a sake of argument how you feel about a UK wide referendum on if Scotland should leave the UK. Scotland leaving would affect all members of the UK not just the Scottish ones so you get a true representation of will of the UK 'people'.

I might even vote yes as a referendum a year until Scottish nationalist get the result they want (for better or worse) is going to be at the bare minimum disruptive for both the Scottland and the rest of the UK.

Why should non Scots have a say on the future of Scotland? It would be like your next door neighbor having a say on whether you can go on holiday or not.

In fact I would go as far as to say only people who have been resident in Scotland for at least 10 years should get the vote in a future referendum. But that is just my opinion and is about as likely to happen as the rest of the UK getting to vote in a future referendum.

ubersonic said:
He was parodying your irrationally obsessive adoration towards Salmond.

Really? Oh I am sorry. I was totally convinced that he was being deadly serious. I am glad I have you here to keep me right. :eek:

jsmoke · 24 Sep 2015 at 17:10

lovelyhead said:
Why should non Scots have a say on the future of Scotland? It would be like your next door neighbor having a say on whether you can go on holiday or not.

In fact I would go as far as to say only people who have been resident in Scotland for at least 10 years should get the vote in a future referendum. But that is just my opinion and is about as likely to happen as the rest of the UK getting to vote in a future referendum.

You are a total bigot and an indirect troll. Nationalism is always a bad thing and you know it.

lovelyhead · 24 Sep 2015 at 17:11

Woden said:
No, no there isn't. Not one that actually matters anyway.

Yes, yes there is.

If Scotland votes to stay in the EU and England votes to leave there is a real possibility of another referendum.

That is assuming the SNP win a majority at Holyrood next year (looking extremely likely) and that they have a manifesto commitment to hold a referendum if there is any material change in the relationship of the member countries of the UK. The above would definitely meet that criteria.

jsmoke said:
You are a total bigot and an indirect troll. Nationalism is always a bad thing and you know it.

I'm hurt. Really I am.

KillBoY_UK · 24 Sep 2015 at 17:16

lovelyhead said:
Why should non Scots have a say on the future of Scotland? It would be like your next door neighbour having a say on whether you can go on holiday or not.

In fact I would go as far as to say only people who have been resident in Scotland for at least 10 years should get the vote in a future referendum. But that is just my opinion and is about as likely to happen as the rest of the UK getting to vote in a future referendum.

Because Scotland leaving would affect the rest of the UK especially if Scotland continued to use the pound and got rid of trident (where your neighbour metaphor starts to break down) Two big issues that would affect the rest of the UK so why not let the rest of the UK 'people' have a say if the will of the 'people' is such big reason for wanting to leave.

Dos'nt have to be Scotland but I think if any member of the UK left I could see it leading to a total breakup after a generation or to, which would be a shame see happen.

KillBoY_UK · 24 Sep 2015 at 17:18

lovelyhead said:
Yes, yes there is.

If Scotland votes to stay in the EU and England votes to leave there is a real possibility of another referendum.

.

Forget about Wales and Northern Ireland ?

lovelyhead · 24 Sep 2015 at 17:21

KillBoY_UK said:
Forget about Wales and Northern Ireland ?

No I deliberately left them out because in a UK wide referendum on Scottish Independence, what England wanted, England would get. It wouldn't matter which way the other member states voted, it would be the English voters that would decide the outcome. That is the reason a UK wide referendum on Scottish independence would not work.

KillBoY_UK · 24 Sep 2015 at 17:26

lovelyhead said:
No I deliberately left them out because in a UK wide referendum on Scottish Independence, what England wanted, England would get.

I doubt it would be a proportional representation style vote by country as that would be very very silly

Plus there's just a little irony in what you just said/how you said it.

scorza · 24 Sep 2015 at 17:29

lovelyhead said:
No I deliberately left them out because in a UK wide referendum on Scottish Independence, what England wanted, England would get. It wouldn't matter which way the other member states voted, it would be the English voters that would decide the outcome. That is the reason a UK wide referendum on Scottish independence would not work.

Not everyone in England will vote the same way you know. If there's to be a split in the UK then my condition would be that Scotland has to take Northern Ireland with it - after all they're only in the Union because of Scotland. England and Wales will be one country, Scotland and Ulster another one.

lovelyhead · 24 Sep 2015 at 17:30

Here is a hypothetical question.

What would happen if there was a UK wide Scottish Independence referendum and 100% of Scots, 100% of Irish and 100% of Welsh people voted for Scottish independence but 100% of English people voted NO.

NO would have a majority of 40 million votes.

That is why UK wide Scottish independence referendum is nonsensical and would never happen. If the only way we could hold another referendum was for it to be opened up to the whole of the UK, we may as well not even bother as the English vote would stop us from leaving even if 100% of Scots wanted independence.

lovelyhead · 24 Sep 2015 at 17:31

scorza said:
Not everyone in England will vote the same way you know. If there's to be a split in the UK then my condition would be that Scotland has to take Northern Ireland with it - after all they're only in the Union because of Scotland. England and Wales will be one country, Scotland and Ulster another one.

It is kind of you to offer us Northern Ireland but it isn't really up to the English to make that decision.

Five.Stars · 24 Sep 2015 at 17:33

lovelyhead said:
Why should non Scots have a say on the future of Scotland? It would be like your next door neighbor having a say on whether you can go on holiday or not.

In fact I would go as far as to say only people who have been resident in Scotland for at least 10 years should get the vote in a future referendum. But that is just my opinion and is about as likely to happen as the rest of the UK getting to vote in a future referendum.

A great number of non Scots voted in 2014 referendum whilst a great number of Scots living abroad (who may intend returning) were denied a vote!

Five.Stars · 24 Sep 2015 at 17:35

lovelyhead said:
Yes, yes there is.

If Scotland votes to stay in the EU and England votes to leave there is a real possibility of another referendum.

That is assuming the SNP win a majority at Holyrood next year (looking extremely likely) and that they have a manifesto commitment to hold a referendum if there is any material change in the relationship of the member countries of the UK. The above would definitely meet that criteria.

So all that has a chance of happening prior to the end of 2016 aye?

You are a weapons grade crackpot.

scorza · 24 Sep 2015 at 17:36

lovelyhead said:
It is kind of you to offer us Northern Ireland but it isn't really up to the English to make that decision.

I'd make it compulsory in the negotiations that followed a Yes vote. The people of Northern Ireland will be happy because half the population will be re-united with their "Wee-free" ancestors, and the other half will also be happy because they're a bunch of Nationalist Socialists (like the SNP) that hate Westminster as well.

lovelyhead · 24 Sep 2015 at 17:40

Five.Stars said:
A great number of non Scots voted in 2014 referendum whilst a great number of Scots living abroad (who may intend returning) were denied a vote!

I know and if I were in power I would change that. But I'm not so I can't.

The YES side played to cleanly last time around. The NO side didn't. Hopefully next time around YES get dirty and do things like limit votes to Scottish born people only. The wailing of the unionists would be deafening but the one thing we nationalists have learnt from last time is that the opposition will stoop to any depth to win. So must we.

But the YES campaign won't do that unfortunately.

scorza said:
I'd make it compulsory in the negotiations that followed a Yes vote. The people of Northern Ireland will be happy because half the population will be re-united with their "Wee-free" ancestors, and the other half will also be happy because they're a bunch of Nationalist Socialists (like the SNP) that hate Westminster as well.

You unionists really hate people who don't tow the rule Britannia line don't you. I'm surprised that some Irish posters haven't chimed in to tell you to go f yourself.

KillBoY_UK · 24 Sep 2015 at 17:44

Five.Stars said:
A great number of non Scots voted in 2014 referendum whilst a great number of Scots living abroad (who may intend returning) were denied a vote!

Indeed that very much ****ed off my Scottish house mate for lots of reasons

lovelyhead · 24 Sep 2015 at 17:47

Five.Stars said:
So all that has a chance of happening prior to the end of 2016 aye?

You are a weapons grade crackpot.

The end of 2016 is pretty optimistic. 2017 would be the year most likely. If Scotland votes to stay and England votes leave in the EU referendum then a new independence referendum would have to happen pretty quickly afterwards. The shorter the campaign the better as well. Gives the unionists less time to scare the pensioners.

scorza · 24 Sep 2015 at 17:47

lovelyhead said:
You unionists really hate people who don't tow the rule Britannia line don't you. I'm surprised that some Irish posters haven't chimed in to tell you to go f yourself.

I advised the people of Scotland to vote Yes in the referendum, so I'm hardly a unionist. I get told to go f myself all the time on this forum, hasn't stopped me yet

KillBoY_UK · 24 Sep 2015 at 17:54

lovelyhead said:
You unionists really hate people who don't tow the rule Britannia line don't you. I'm surprised that some Irish posters haven't chimed in to tell you to go f yourself.

I don't hate people nor that I count my self as a unionist. Britannia doesn't relay exist any-more, unless the Romans are still around then in that case you are you should be calling for Caledonia independence.

Then again http://codegeass.wikia.com/wiki/Holy_Britannian_Empire

Five.Stars · 24 Sep 2015 at 18:19

lovelyhead said:
I know and if I were in power I would change that. But I'm not so I can't.

The YES side played to cleanly last time around. The NO side didn't. Hopefully next time around YES get dirty and do things like limit votes to Scottish born people only. The wailing of the unionists would be deafening but the one thing we nationalists have learnt from last time is that the opposition will stoop to any depth to win. So must we.

But the YES campaign won't do that unfortunately.

Great, lets do as you suggest. But in doing so, you will have to give the same vote to all Scottish expatriates (including some 800,000 living in England I believe) and those serving abroad in her majesty's armed forces with no fixed abode on Scottish soil.

Still fancy your chances? Or should we just limit it to people with an intent to vote yes?

As I stated earlier, a crackpot!!!

Five.Stars · 24 Sep 2015 at 18:23

lovelyhead said:
There is a very real possibility there could be another referendum by the end of next year.

lovelyhead said:
The end of 2016 is pretty optimistic. 2017 would be the year most likely. If Scotland votes to stay and England votes leave in the EU referendum then a new independence referendum would have to happen pretty quickly afterwards. The shorter the campaign the better as well. Gives the unionists less time to scare the pensioners.

So which is it, a very real possibility, or is that perhaps pretty optimistic (read absolutely zero % chance)?

As far as your line about scaring pensioners - rather be on that side of the argument than the side wishing them dead.