Pay Advice, Age, Salary. Help

Macwhite97 · 25 Sep 2015 at 10:44

Hi Everyone, so basically long story short. I have been an Apprentice at a Software Company for 2 years now and my contract is coming to a close in December. My Current company have decided to keep me and offered me a contract. For a bit of background info I've basically been solo running my field on some Bespoke software (No one else can do my job) for at least 6 months, my previous manager left in August and it's all been on me since then. I'm the only person able to support this product to the level I can. I'm constantly told about how vital I am

.

However, the money and Job Title I've been offered is just crap and a complete joke. A person who sits next to me doing a similar job with 10% of the experience I have is on a considerable amount more than I've been offered. Are my company allowed to pay someone more solely based on age even though they're hugely under-experienced compared to me? I'm planning on leaving this company if they don't bump up their offer considerably, what is other peoples opinion on this? What would you do. Thanks

Dis86 · 25 Sep 2015 at 10:47

They can pay someone whatever they like.

So long as it's equal to or above minimum wage that is.

Gilly · 25 Sep 2015 at 10:48

Are they allowed to? Of course they are. Whether you accept that or not is entirely up to you.

Find out what your market value is, and seek a conversation with your employer. What they pay others isn't really the question, but you can use that as a framework to decide what you feel you are worth to them.

Greebo · 25 Sep 2015 at 10:48

Ask for more. As for paying somebody else with less experience mroe than you then yes people can pay more due to age and/or time served.

You may have learnt more in 2 years than say his 10 years experience but on paper he has 8 years more experience than you? Makes sense?

ANyway, if you are as crucial as you say you are, now is the time to strike while the iron is hot!

ANyway how do you know how much he is on? salaries are meant to be confidential. We used to have an employee at out last place who used to cause all kinds of agro by going around lying about how much he got paid and that he got paid more than anybody else when in fact he got paid exactly the same.

Jim99 · 25 Sep 2015 at 10:48

They can pay whatever they want.

Honestly, if you want more money, find a job somewhere else. That will tell you fairly quickly what you're worth on the open market.

Yes, you can complain to your current company and ask for a pay rise but they'll still always give you the least they can get away with, and on top of that they might decide they don't like you much any more.

McPhee · 25 Sep 2015 at 10:49

Just go. If there's one piece of advice that most of the IT workers on this forum will give you it's keep moving companies. It's the easiest way to grow pay in any meaningful way when you work in IT.

Tunney · 25 Sep 2015 at 10:49

Employers can't discriminate on age but taking an employer to court for doing so is now fairly expensive.

Good luck arguing your case. Hopefully you have enough experience to find a better paying job elsewhere anyway.

Greebo · 25 Sep 2015 at 10:50

Negotiating skills are important. Ive seen new employees come into a business before on several thousand more than existing ones despite been worse purely cause they could negotiate good terms.

Macwhite97 · 25 Sep 2015 at 10:50

Dis86 said:
They can pay someone whatever they like.

Very true.

Caged · 25 Sep 2015 at 10:51

You need to job hop in IT. So do that.

Go in and ask for more, but don't say "waaah this guy is on more than me", find a local recruiter (so they don't try and insist you're worth London prices) and get a feel for the market, and use that as your baseline.

This time two years ago I was underpaid and had been denied a pay review for 7+ months. When the review was finally done it was basically a kangaroo court style thing that didn't take into account any technical knowledge and judged things like "do I have to work nights", and it concluded that I was overpaid. I moved jobs and I now earn double what I used to.

Macwhite97 · 25 Sep 2015 at 10:53

Thanks for the replies everyone. As for pay of other Employees, I'm close friends with them so we're all pretty open.

I'll look around at other jobs available and negotiate what I can from my current employer.

EDIT: Just as a side note I do really enjoy working for my current company they have definitely looked after me but I guess if it's time to move on.

antijoke · 25 Sep 2015 at 10:55

Have you negotiated with them in a mature grown up manner? And not just, but this guys on £8k more than me and does a fraction of the work, I want more than him?

If you haven't even negotiated yet do it in a sensible way, put together the work you do and explain why you would like to be reimbursed more, add value to what you bring to the table and you might just be rewarded as such, go in like a spoilt child and be prepared to get nothing. Oh and pro tip, don't even menton you know how much your friend is on.

Macwhite97 · 25 Sep 2015 at 10:57

anticonscience said:
Have you negotiated with them in a mature grown up manner? And not just, but this guys on £8k more than me and does a fraction of the work, I want more than him?

If you haven't even negotiated yet do it in a sensible way, put together the work you do and explain why you would like to be reimbursed more, add value to what you bring to the table and you might just be rewarded as such, go in like a spoilt child and be prepared to get nothing.

I'm planning on going to management exactly like that. Presenting exactly what I've done, why I think I'm worth more. I definitely understand throwing your toys out the pram gets you no where in the world of business so will avoiding that route at all costs haha.

edscdk · 25 Sep 2015 at 11:00

Rule 1 of employment club: NEVER EVER EVER tell ANYONE you work with how much you earn.

Rule 2 of employment club: NEVER ASK anyone how much they earn (incase they dont know rule 1)

in the hsitory of man this has never had a good conclusion

other than those 2 rule anything up to crapping on the desk is fine.... though i do work in a monkey cage...

Macwhite97 · 25 Sep 2015 at 11:02

edscdk said:
Rule 1 of employment club: NEVER EVER EVER tell ANYONE you work with how much you earn.

Rule 2 of employment club: NEVER ASK anyone how much they earn (incase they dont know rule 1)

in the hsitory of man this has never had a good conclusion

other than those 2 rule anything up to crapping on the desk is fine.... though i do work in a monkey cage...

In my negotiations I'm not going to bring up how much anyone else earns (to my own knowledge). I want to see what my company thinks I'm worth. Though I have been looking for a change of scenery so :cool:

grudas · 25 Sep 2015 at 11:02

if you're that vital then they will keep you

if not they will let you go, they will simply consider their options and decide if you're worth keeping or worth replacing! so make sure you're worth keeping

I was in a similar situations when I was 15-20k under everyone else in my team aftertwo years of apprenticeships so I just found another job, handed in my notice and then they counter-offered with proper salary so I'd stay.

Macwhite97 · 25 Sep 2015 at 11:05

grudas said:
if you're that vital then they will keep you if not they will let you go, they will simply consider their options and decide if you're worth keeping or worth replacing! so make sure you're worth keeping

I was in a similar situations when I was 15-20k under everyone else in my team aftertwo years of apprenticeships so I just found another job, handed in my notice and then they counter-offered with proper salary so I'd stay.

Sounds about right to me. Thank you for the advice.

grudas · 25 Sep 2015 at 11:12

Macwhite97 said:
Sounds about right to me. Thank you for the advice.

if the cost of -;

finding a replacement
training

over-weights the cost of your pay raise then you're in a very safe spot!

because for them to find someone who is going to be able to do your job, at your level and be able to learn/train up in short period of time(guess 1-2months is your notice period?) is going to cost a lot! and they will need to pay the market rate for the role, and I assume you're well under that

Macwhite97 · 25 Sep 2015 at 11:19

Thanks for all the advice everyone. Think I'm going to look around the market see what else I could do then weigh-up my options and just be upfront with my current manager with what I would like to see. Wish me luck

Hades · 25 Sep 2015 at 11:25

You're salary is probably not defined by comparisons with the colleagues around you, particularly if they have been there some time. It is defined by the wider market including the potential to employ someone in India on a fraction of the salary. You need to show why you are more valuable than other people.