How far is this VW thing going to go?

Greebo · 28 Sep 2015 at 16:15

dannyjo22 said:
What extra services? The difference between getting a service at 12000 and 10,000 isn't going to be that heart breaking. 1 extra service every 5 years? .

But i meant its still there and needs to be added into the equation along with the petrol car been cheaper etc.

It all adds up. And now from this month diesel cars have adblue tanks so you have to add the additional cost of adblue on top of your diesel purchase. I think this is around 50p to 60p a litre at forecourts.

Hades · 28 Sep 2015 at 16:17

Greebo said:
But i meant its still there and needs to be added into the equation along with the petrol car been cheaper etc.

It all adds up. And now from this month diesel cars have adblue tanks so you have to add the additional cost of adblue on top of your diesel purchase. I think this is around 50p to 60p a litre at forecourts.

I know very little about adblue. What happens if you want to save money by simply not topping it up?

dannyjo22 · 28 Sep 2015 at 16:20

Greebo said:
But i meant its still there and needs to be added into the equation along with the petrol car been cheaper etc..

Yeah understood, it made no difference when my wife bought her TD130 Ibiza a few years ago. It was the exact same price for the FR in petrol or diesel. I am as I say pleased to see the back of Diesel after 13 or so years driving them.

ICDP · 28 Sep 2015 at 19:00

Dis86 said:
I bet that 1.6 is a hell of a lot quicker than the 1.5!

That wasn't the point at all, not even remotely.

Outcast · 28 Sep 2015 at 19:09

Hades said:
I know very little about adblue. What happens if you want to save money by simply not topping it up?

I don't know about cars but on our trucks they simply don't start on 2014 & newer.

Older trucks go into limp mode.

Adblu usage: on a 220 litre fill of derv we use about 18 litres of Adblu

Dis86 · 28 Sep 2015 at 19:10

ICDP said:
That wasn't the point at all, not even remotely.

Exactly. You're comparing apples and oranges.

It's not about engine capacity. It's about power per unit capacity. The petrol will be producing far more so will naturally require more fuel.

Compare similar power diesels and petrols.

ICDP · 28 Sep 2015 at 19:11

Hades said:
I know very little about adblue. What happens if you want to save money by simply not topping it up?

Adblue is topped up at the time of your cars normal service or can be done yourself. Usually around 12000 miles between top-ups and cost is around £10-£15.

Not a major deal or cost.

ICDP · 28 Sep 2015 at 19:31

Dis86 said:
Exactly. You're comparing apples and oranges.

It's not about engine capacity. It's about power per unit capacity. The petrol will be producing far more so will naturally require more fuel.

Compare similar power diesels and petrols.

The only other option was a 1.2T petrol which I tried but just didn't like at all. Though lets look at the price and three year running costs for that compared to the 1.5T diesel.

1.2T (115bhp) petrol: £1750 cheaper. ~38 real world MPG (not significantly better than the 1.6T). £110 road tax
1.5T (113bhp) diesel: ~54 real world mpg. Zero road tax

~45% better MPG with the diesel, same 15000K mileage = ~£500 less fuel costs. So with road tax and fuel saving it would work out ~£600 cheaper per year to run the diesel. Over three years the overall car costs are very similar. Again this is contrary to Greebo's claim that you need to be doing 25K miles for a diesel to pay for itself.

"It used to be that you could save money running a diesel over a petrol without doing massive miles per annum. Last time i did the calcs it was almost 25k per year you needed to do to be better off with a diesel. I suspect it will be even more now."

So while I agree that it is lunacy purchasing diesel cars if you do low annual mileage. I do dispute the notion that you need to be doing 25k miles before a diesel becomes a worthwhile option.

Orionaut · 28 Sep 2015 at 19:33

El Reg!

http://www.theregister.co.uk/2015/0..._whos_to_blame_you_guessed_it_hippies/?page=1

Jono8 · 28 Sep 2015 at 19:34

ICDP said:
Actually despite the fact the 1.6T petrol produced ~160bhp compared to 110bhp for the diesel, it was a less refined drive due to the lower low end torque. It was faster, but all the power came at high revs and and it had a much more noticeable amount of turbo lag.

Overall I found the diesel far less laggy and relaxing car to drive. The only other option was a 1.2T petrol which I never even considered to be honest, so lets look at the prices for that.

Lol

What car model are we talking about out of interest?

wesley · 28 Sep 2015 at 19:35

ICDP said:
That wasn't the point at all, not even remotely.

yes it does!

it would be fairer if you compare 1.6t diesel to 1.2tsi as both has similar power.

i hired ibiza 1.2tsi in spain for a week. 52mpg average. i was very impressed with the engine, very refined, smooth and more importantly more fun to drive

small petrol turbocharged engine is the future

Jono8 · 28 Sep 2015 at 19:41

wesley said:
yes it does!

it would be fairer if you compare 1.6t diesel to 1.2tsi as both has similar power.

i hired ibiza 1.2tsi in spain for a week. 52mpg average. i was very impressed with the engine, very refined, smooth and more importantly more fun to drive

small petrol turbocharged engine is the future

Exactly. His comparison is ridiculous.

ICDP · 28 Sep 2015 at 19:51

Jono8 said:
Exactly. His comparison is ridiculous.

I compared it to a 1.2T as requested. Still doesn't work out any cheaper than running the 1.5T Diesel over a typical three year ownership at 15k miles per year. But you go ahead and keep missing the point of my argument was to dispute claims you need to be doing 25K miles per year to make a diesel car worthwhile compared to a petrol.

I compared 3x identical cars apart from the engine type and showed that even doing 15K miles per year the diesel was as viable or better an option overall economically. All my numbers are taken from the net and my own experience with my 1.5T Diesel.

2014 Qashqai if you are interested.

wesley · 28 Sep 2015 at 20:01

ICDP

cars are cost lots of money to run anyway, regardless if its petrol or diesel.

every diesel cars i drove. i feel nasty vibrations thro the gear stick, steering wheel, all pedals. i woud never ever own a diesel car no matter i could 'save' if i went for diesel over petrol.

by the way, road tax for 1.2tsi is £30 a year, and i manage get 52mpg easily.

[TW]Fox · 28 Sep 2015 at 20:06

Outcast said:
Some people (Myself included) prefer the way a diesel drives.

I think actually what you prefer is the way a turbocharged engine - and thus every diesel - drives. Not diesel specifically. Generally the specific traits diesel alone adds to the way a car drives are negative. Diesel reduces refinement and offers poorer NVH dynamics than a petrol engine. If you like that effortless shove a diesel offers then it's forced induction you like, rather than diesel.

Diesel in road cars is fundamentally about fuel efficiency, because the fuel consumption of a petrol engine offering similar performance characteristics is generally noticeably higher.

Greebo · 28 Sep 2015 at 20:12

Hades said:
I know very little about adblue. What happens if you want to save money by simply not topping it up?

Depends on the car. Some cars will just go into limp mode. Mercedes I know the car won't start. You will have to call out a breakdown van or walk to a garage to get some adblue.

ICDP · 28 Sep 2015 at 20:13

wesley said:
ICDP

cars are cost lots of money to run anyway, regardless if its petrol or diesel.

every diesel cars i drove. i feel nasty vibrations thro the gear stick, steering wheel, all pedals. i woud never ever own a diesel car no matter i could 'save' if i went for diesel over petrol.

by the way, road tax for 1.2tsi is £30 a year, and i manage get 52mpg easily.

It's going to depend on car by car basis and I would never claim my numbers refer to all diesel vs petrol comparisons (same car different engines). Some of the newer diesel cars have very smooth and refined engines that while not as refined overall compared to a petrol, they have advantages that go beyond economy.

Better low end torque.
Generally less turbo lag due to the fact the turbo on a diesel kicks in at lower revs.
This results in a better power delivery than a 1.2T petrol for example.

Of course it's a matter of personal preference.

Greebo · 28 Sep 2015 at 20:18

Two problems with adblue at top up.

1. The dealers are charging a £1 a litre so ripping you off since we buy it at 24p for our wagons.

2. Didnt vw cheat the emission test but having the cars dump more adblue into the system? Therefore in order to pass the current tests, the amount of adblue needed might be a lot lot more than they are currently set to use.

Still its another cost every service and the fact the handbooks say that depending on your driving, you might need to fill it up between services is just another pain. Especially if you are nowhere near an adblue selling garage.

Destination · 28 Sep 2015 at 20:20

How would one know if one's engine was an EU5 variant?

Greebo · 28 Sep 2015 at 20:38

All cars from this month are Euro 6 but a lot of manufacturers had Euro 6 engines in their cars from 2013.

Manufacturers website I would assume is best place to check.