Bloody immigrants not respecting the law

One More Solo

One More Solo

One More Solo

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UK pensioner Karl Andree faces 360 lashes over Saudi wine

Karl Andree, 74, has already spent more than a year in prison since being arrested by Saudi religious police.

His daughter Kirsten Piroth told the BBC her father - who has suffered from three types of cancer - "would not survive" the punishment lashes.

The Foreign Office said it was "seeking his release as soon as possible".

Alcohol is illegal in Saudi Arabia and Mrs Piroth said her father was transporting homemade wine in his car in August 2014 when he was pulled over and arrested.
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http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-34513096

This does seem like a massively disproportionate sentence, but at the same time, that is their law and it's pretty well publicised. Assuming the same sentence would be dished out to a Saudi national, it's hard to say it's unjust even if it is disproportionate.

It does also point to the wider issue of a proportion of the ex-pat community who don't exactly assimilate with the locals and their culture. I think this is an unavoidable trait to a large extent and not one that is unique to migrants to the UK. Where there are large ex-pat communities, it just facilitates this.

Is it fair to say then that if you're not willing to live by the standards of another country then you should be prepared for what comes your way?
 
He should have obeyed local laws and customers. The fact some Brits abroad do not do so, in no way undermines the argument immigrants to Britain should do so.

It's likely his punishment will be commuted. If it isn't, Britain should send a ship to the coast of Saudi Arabia to do some reconstruction work in Mecca.
 
Ha knew it would be this.

As you say, he knew the rules. While they seem barbaric and ridiculous to us, he chose to live over there, took the risk and got caught.

Lashes probably will kill him though so hopefully they will work something out, depends how serious a crime they see it as. 360 lashes might be for a petty offence over there :eek:
 
One More Solo said:
Is it fair to say then that if you're not willing to live by the standards of another country then you should be prepared for what comes your way?
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Yes.

But that doesn't mean we, as a country, should not put pressure on other states to move away from such punishments and restrictive laws.
 
It's hard to compare our culture to theirs as they fundamentally have a different belief system. Harsh by our standards though, however we did used to have capital punishment and shoot people for desertion(which may still happen in the event of WW3).
 
Thought it would be this story!

At least in the story I read, there didn't seem to be any argument against the prison sentence, and you would expect the UK Government to campaign against lashes as punishment.
 
Hopefully they'll come to some sort of agreement where he can get less than that but deported.

However he did break the law over there, and to me it's slightly interesting that it's mentioned it was home made wine, but no mention of the quantity, I can't help but wonder given the punishment if it's more than just transporting a few bottles of wine, as the implication to me is that someone made it possibly in the country.
 
Personally, I regard that sort of sentence as barbaric but, yes, if you choose to live in a country, you choose to abide by their laws and should expect to be subject to them. For that reason, there are countries I would not ever considering emigrating to, and Saudi would be Top 10, probably Top 5.

I've never visited Saudi, let alone lived there, and even I know their judicial attitude to alcohol, so someone living there really can't credibly claim ignorance. It seems he stupidly took a chance, and got caught. Idiot.

I watched a police program on the TV a few days ago where traffic cops pulled over a foreign (Polish, I think) lorry driver for a series of things, including having a laptop set up on his dash where he could watch video while driving. He said it wasn't illegal in Poland, and our cops said, quite correctly, he isn't in Poland. And ticketed him.

Same principle applies. This bloke with booze in his car wasn't in the UK. Presumably, he knew he was in Saudi, knew what he was doing and can't really have not known the potential consequences. It's a bit like Russuan roulette. If you don't like the odds, or risks, don't play the 'game'.
 
Man already spent a year in prison for a little moon shining, I doubt Saudis have an appetite to make an example here, just a little advert to the world that we don't care who we arrest and it's only cool to drink if you're a diplomat.

Unless we don't know the full story and looking at Breaking Bad mastermind criminal responsible for 85% of home brewing operations in Saudi Arabia producing some of the clearest moonshine known to man.

Thompson_NCL said:
If it isn't, Britain should send a ship to the coast of Saudi Arabia to do some reconstruction work in Mecca.
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Please, that would require backbone.
 
Cosimo said:
Can't offend them as there is too much trade to lose.
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I'd not compromise trade for some nonsense like "human rights". But if a country murders a British citizen for something as petty as possessing alcohol, I'd absolutely be willing to sacrifice trade to put them back in their box.

Other nations should fear the consequences of harming our citizens.
 
so immigrants coming to uk must follow our laws, but uk citizens abroad do not have to follow that countries laws? ;)
 
Thompson_NCL said:
H Britain should send a ship to the coast of Saudi Arabia to do some reconstruction work in Mecca.
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we don't really have much of a Navy left to put on a decent show of strength.......... maybe give them a trident payload up the ass to get value from the old system before we upgrade ?
 
Thompson_NCL said:
I'd not compromise trade for some nonsense like "human rights". But if a country murders a British citizen for something as petty as possessing alcohol, I'd absolutely be willing to sacrifice trade to put them back in their box.

Other nations should fear the consequences of harming our citizens.
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But it's only petty to you.

It's a drug, a drug that is illegal over there. I bet you have no qualms about the death penalty for drug traffickers in SE Asia, or people being imprisoned for possession of drugs, they know the rules right? They shouldn't have taken the chance.
 
It's this quote which stood out for me:

Asked if she was happy with the help given by UK authorities, she said: "I don't really understand why it's taking so long because it's my understanding in that system that it needs... a phone call to the right person and he could be released."
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Sorry to be *that* guy, but it does seem indicative of today's societal inability to take any personal responsibility for your actions. I have no idea why she seems to think that the UK authorities should step in and help someone who broke the law in another country. Are we expected to bow down to foreign powers if we have imprisoned their citizens? I don't think so.

Say what you want about the punishment being inappropriate, or overly harsh but it's very well known that alcohol is prohibited in Saudi Arabia. You break the rules, you get punished. It shouldn't then be the responsibility of the British state to bail you out.
 
Werewolf said:
Hopefully they'll come to some sort of agreement where he can get less than that but deported.

However he did break the law over there, and to me it's slightly interesting that it's mentioned it was home made wine, but no mention of the quantity, I can't help but wonder given the punishment if it's more than just transporting a few bottles of wine, as the implication to me is that someone made it possibly in the country.
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News said six bottles in his boot...but its from the news, so that could be a complete lie :p
 
Reading the BBC article and I see there's a law against women driving, hahahahaha, oh boy that's a doozy right there.

They really are stuck in the dark ages.
 
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